G
Geordie Spark
I'm not doing it anymore ....... I'm retired.
I'm not doing it anymore ....... I'm retired.
Inspected and tested a new build last week that the customer had wired up themselves - everything is a ring - sockets, lights, cooker, everything! Wholesalers best friend
Presumably, DIY or over enthusiastic apprentice. Did you count the number of clips?
I saw a job once, where every cable, undressed, emanating from the DB had been over-clipped (100mm apart). Would have looked better if no clips were used at all.
Inspected and tested a new build last week that the customer had wired up themselves - everything is a ring - sockets, lights, cooker, everything! Wholesalers best friend
Cooker had its own ring???
Dang!!
Did they have a electric shower?
O
oldtimer
This post should have been titled Do we need the ring circuit anymore and yep because a lot of appliances are low current it sounds good until your in the kitchen fine run radials but now we need bigger CUs
can do all required testing without leaving consumer unit and going looking for last point.
20amps for a 2.5radial is sometimes not enough (4800watts) = kettle + toaster + washing machine in the kitechen at same time and the thing will trip.
quite a useful invention
If you have 2 radials feeding a kitchen, ie 1 for the sockets and 1 for the appliances, you use less cable then 1 ring.
D
Dizzy_Maskell
Yes I think banish the ring final circuit.
20 amp RCBO radial 1 upstairs 1down and dependant on house size a 4mm 32 Amp RCBO radial for kitchen
Job done
20 amp RCBO radial 1 upstairs 1down and dependant on house size a 4mm 32 Amp RCBO radial for kitchen
Job done
O
Octopus
Really. Not in most kitchens I see where the appliances are fairly close to the sockets.
Yea fair point, depends on the layout of the building and kitchen itself, Its practically no difference. I'd say two radials would be better anyway tho as long as you have room on the board.
O
oldtimer
Think we are missing the fact that the modern CU is designed with the ring in mind hence why 10 way so if you were to run radials then you would need more ways ie 12-14 mcb or we go back to doubling circuits up to make room a bit like existing when the 2 light circuits are put into 1 to make room for a shower circuit
Certainly not going to read this thread from the start because the thread title content didn't make much sense to me
I understand in other countries it is the case,but we have our systems and we are expected to understand our systems
The ring and radial circuits gives us an option that they don't have
The ring and radial both have their merits and their disadvantages,use them to suit what you are installing and its happy days
An example of why not make all circuits radial would be
If we were running a lighting cable around a football field,surely it could be both cost effective and easier to install with either option.I suppose it would depend on the actual practicalities of the installation route
I understand in other countries it is the case,but we have our systems and we are expected to understand our systems
The ring and radial circuits gives us an option that they don't have
The ring and radial both have their merits and their disadvantages,use them to suit what you are installing and its happy days
An example of why not make all circuits radial would be
If we were running a lighting cable around a football field,surely it could be both cost effective and easier to install with either option.I suppose it would depend on the actual practicalities of the installation route
S
SirKit Breaker
touche
Nice, that means i can install a 40+ way CU in my house, and thats before i connect lighting etc, its just for the 40 sockets.
O
oldtimer
Another point would be the 13 amp plug top because we can fuse down funny thing is the supply that comes in from the street there is a good chance its wired in the form of a ring to help with volt drop
G
Guest55
where did you get that bollox from ?
a 32a radial does the same job as a 32a ring but with 1 less cable in the CU.
this is one of those topics that always brings out a load of ill thought out "traditional" bullsh*t.
;-)
If you use one of these you can add all sorts of accessory switchgear such as contactors, Elight modules, timers even enough room for a few RCDs, MCBs and a couple of RCBOs
You see...lots of room - loland looks neat and top notch professional.....
We did a job about 5 years ago, luxury apartments in London, each one had a 12 way M Gerin TP&N DB with single phasing kit giving 36 single ways. The smaller apartments used 19 ways and the largest had 28 ways used. 3 of the circuits were also rings. I have the test sheets somewhere on a memory stick.
O
Octopus
And who wants to fight with 4 x 4mm T&E in a 25mm back box?
I can see that fitting in the corner of the built-in wardrobe which the builder decided was a good idea to fit after the CU was installed...
F
Fin170
Abandoning the perfectly functioning ring circuit and the superior design of sockets that came from it?
Na, then you'll be telling me it's a good idea to switch from Red, blue and yellow to several shades of blurr
Na, then you'll be telling me it's a good idea to switch from Red, blue and yellow to several shades of blurr
4
44ALLAN
Confused..............all I said was touche?
E
Engineer54
Oldtimer is basically correct, if all socket circuits were of the radial design, UK CU's would be need to have more way's on each side of the dual RCD's and more expensive RCBO's on a straight CU.
If the ring circuit is dropped in favour of radial circuits then you can bet your soul, that they will introduce a socket outlet plug system designed for use with radial circuits like the German/French systems, then you can kiss your 4mm radials goodbye!!
Traditional bull**** as you put it, is well based on tried and tested circuit design, nothing wrong with your beloved belief in radial circuits, but by the same token there is absolutley nothing wrong with a ring circuit either. Generally find it's mainly the electrical trainee's brigade that don't like rings, because they haven't a clue how to test or fault find them.
G
Geordie Spark
Aye ... well - just watch who's touche yer touchin' bonny lad !!!:angry_smile:
M
Mr Hehound
Am I missing something here? Its horses for courses surely. Use whatevers most appropriate for the circuit and cable run.
G
Guest55
Agree there guitarist.
The rfc is like the outer rings of saturn.
Greatly misunderstood!
Most houses I have lived in have had 2 rings normally up and down or front and back and never seen a problem with that method.
As the old saying goes if it aint broke then leave it the hell alone!!
The rfc is like the outer rings of saturn.
Greatly misunderstood!
Most houses I have lived in have had 2 rings normally up and down or front and back and never seen a problem with that method.
As the old saying goes if it aint broke then leave it the hell alone!!
E
Engineer54
You hum it Biff and i play it!!
Tired old records have a habit of staying the course for a reason, ....They WORK and work WELL!! lol!!
C
craigj85
I always thought it was incase one socket fails the rest are still supplied
G
Geordie Spark
All of my records are old.
Trouble is, I can't get the needles for the gramophone to play them with any more.
If the socket itself fails, then that won't affect the others in a ring or radial. If you're saying that one leg failing will allow the sockets to still be supplied via the other leg, then that is definitely NOT what we are aiming for.
That's a worrying comment. Was it meant to be tongue-in-cheek? Daz
4
44ALLAN
mmmmm 2.5mm with 32A mcb.............
S
sparks will fly
What about for sockets intended for computers, I always put them on a ring, high leakage current so if you lose an earth in the socket it still has a path, if you did it as a radial and lost it on one of the furthest sockets it's gonna find a way out somewhere else
S
sparks will fly
Personal preference I suppose. Rather run 2x 2.5's than a 4mm and separate cpc. Especially if it's in T+E & visible.
S
Steve_P
Sort of depends on the structure of the building too. There's a lot of OLD (5-600 year old) buildings here and messing with 3 to 4 feet of cob wall to complete a ring for a circuit that will probably only have 4 sockets on really isn't worth any thought process, especially when the customer wants invisiwiring, even on the lighting hanging off exposed beams. There's also a lot of buildings on steep hills where the main part of the house is upstairs and maybe a couple of rooms and a bathroom below. Again, these cry out for a radial but generally 2.5mm on a 20A MCB, there's no point putting much more than that for a bedroom and store cupboard or two.
Just some thoughts for the radial Vs ring argument.
Just some thoughts for the radial Vs ring argument.
M
migspat30
when is the 18th coming out ?
Here in France it is all radials, ring mains are not allowed. Each radial can have a max of 8 sockets and items such as washing machines, dishwashers and tumble dryers all have their own circuits
Attached photo is a consumer unit for a one bed cottage.
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