Y-plan Issues - quick help needed please!

[Greg Taylor]

Hi All,

I've followed the Y-plan with pump overrun and direct live for the boiler but still the CH and HT not working.

I Have;

Worchester Greenstar RI
Honeywell ST9400
Honeywell DT90E
3 Port Motorized Valve

The boiler is on standby, thermostat ok and control panel ok. But when I put CH or HW on, nothing happens.

Any help would be great!

Thanks,

Greg

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi All,

I've followed the Y-plan with pump overrun and direct live for the boiler but still the CH and HT not working.

I Have;

Worchester Greenstar RI
Honeywell ST9400
Honeywell DT90E
3 Port Motorized Valve

The boiler is on standby, thermostat ok and control panel ok. But when I put CH or HW on, nothing happens.

Any help would be great!

Thanks,

Greg

What is your orange from the valve and sl from cylinder stat connected to?

 

[davesparks]

Does the valve move correctly? Work through the control sequence methodically testing the voltage at each point to establish where the fault is.

 

[Greg Taylor]

Hi Lee,

They are connected to each other with a link from SL on Boiler for over-run.

Cheers

 

[Greg Taylor]

Hi Dave,

Valve seems to be moving fine. Just the pump doesn't/boiler doesn't seem to fire up.

Cheers

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi Lee,

They are connected to each other with a link from SL on Boiler for over-run.

Cheers

The pump should be connected to pl at the boiler. orange and s/l from cylinder stat should be together and connected to LR on the boiler.

 

[davesparks]

Hi Dave,

Valve seems to be moving fine. Just the pump doesn't/boiler doesn't seem to fire up.

Cheers

And what voltage do you have at the boiler Lr terminal when their should be a demand?

are you a qualified electrician?

 

[Leesparkykent]

This should help it's Worcester specific.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Greg!!

Try answering post #2

You never know your luck - it could be the answer!!

 

[davesparks]

Greg!!

Try answering post #2

You never know your luck - it could be the answer!!

Geordie!!

Try reading post #4

You never know your luck - he might have already answered it!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Geordie!!

Try reading post #4

You never know your luck - he might have already answered it!

My apologies.

My eyes are buggered & waiting for an opration so I'm struggling a bit just now.

 

[Greg Taylor]

This should help it's Worcester specific.

Thanks again Lee.

I will try that now!

 

[davesparks]

My apologies.

My eyes are buggered & waiting for an opration so I'm struggling a bit just now.

I just couldn't resist such an open invite,

 

[Greg Taylor]

This should help it's Worcester specific.

All done Lee,

the pump ran briefly but the boiler didnt kick in. So I reset the boiler and the pump ceased.

Something simple seems to be missing, I've checked all the wiring as well to no avail.

 

[Leesparkykent]

All done Lee,

the pump ran briefly but the boiler didnt kick in. So I reset the boiler and the pump ceased.

Something simple seems to be missing, I've checked all the wiring as well to no avail.

Boiler locking out? Is the blue light solid or flashing?

 

[Doomed]

you do have the gas switched on?

 

[Greg Taylor]

Boiler locking out? Is the blue light solid or flashing?

Solid.... No errors.

im just concentrating on the orange and Cyl wires at the moment! Maybe loose connection.

 

[Greg Taylor]

you do have the gas switched on?

Yeah my gas fire is kicking out some heat as we speak!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Solid.... No errors.

im just concentrating on the orange and Cyl wires at the moment! Maybe loose connection.

turn ch on programmer and turn room thermostat up and check for correct voltage on LR
and do the same for hot water after you have tried the ch or vice versa.

 

[Doomed]

the isolator at the boiler for gas?

 

[Greg Taylor]

the isolator at the boiler for gas?

I haven't touched it... Unless it is an automatic thing?

 

[Leesparkykent]

the isolator at the boiler for gas?

if he didn't have gas the boiler would try and fire and would fail and would bring the fault up on the boiler by the blue light flashing in a certain sequence.

 

[davesparks]

Has this new boiler been properly commissioned by a gas safe registered plumber?

 

[davesparks]

Solid.... No errors.

im just concentrating on the orange and Cyl wires at the moment! Maybe loose connection.

Why would there be loose connections in a newly connected installation?

Get your voltage tester and check to see what voltage you have at the Lr terminal when the control system is in such a state that there should be a demand.

 

[Greg Taylor]

Has this new boiler been properly commissioned by a gas safe registered plumber?

yes I've had it a few years now. But recently changed the thermostat and control panel to Honeywell.

 

[Greg Taylor]

Why would there be loose connections in a newly connected installation?

Get your voltage tester and check to see what voltage you have at the Lr terminal when the control system is in such a state that there should be a demand.

It is not newly installed. It's 70/80's wiring with new Thermostat and Control Panel. Boiler has been in a few years now.

 

[Leesparkykent]

On the programmer you should have number 1 connected to grey on valve and satisfied on cylinder thermostat, number 3 to cylinder thermostat common and number 4 to room thermostat common.

 

[davesparks]

Did it work correctly before you made these changes?

Are you an electrician? Is this a job for a paying customer?

 

[robsparky1975]

If you have changed the programmer and thermostat,there within lies the answer,they have HW ON/OFF,CH ON OFF which if wired incorrectly can cause you problems.

 

[Greg Taylor]

On the programmer you should have number 1 connected to grey on valve and satisfied on cylinder thermostat, number 3 to cylinder thermostat common and number 4 to room thermostat common.

Thats how I have it! I will check again tomorrow and PM you mate.

Cheers

 

[Greg Taylor]

Did it work correctly before you made these changes?

Are you an electrician? Is this a job for a paying customer?

1 - very intermittently, timer wasn't working. Thermostat was from the 60's.

2 - no, not a qualified one.

3 - possibly, but I was seeking advice from Productive members... Not a game of 21 questions.

 

[davesparks]

1 - very intermittently, timer wasn't working. Thermostat was from the 60's.

2 - no, not a qualified one.

3 - possibly, but I was seeking advice from Productive members... Not a game of 21 questions.

1, Ok, did you test the whole system through before making any changes to confirm that diagnosis? Are you sure that all of the other parts of the system that you haven't changed are functioning correctly?

2, for the sake of not starting the usual riot I'm going to stay quiet on that one.

3, Who's playing a game? If you want advice then you need to provide all of the information, if you don't then people will ask for the information. If the system was originally fitted as early as the 60's then there is every possibility it started life as a gravity system which has been adapted into a fully pumped system and may not be following the standard y plan.

I have already advised you as to how to test the system to find the fault, you go through each point in the control system testing that it becomes either live or dead as expected when each control is operated.

 

[Geordie Spark]

1 - very intermittently, timer wasn't working. Thermostat was from the 60's.

2 - no, not a qualified one.

3 - possibly, but I was seeking advice from Productive members... Not a game of 21 questions.

Wind yer neck in bonny lad..

When you go to your GP with some ailment or other, do you just sit in the chair and expect him/her to diagnose the problem without asking or you replying to questions??

(s)he is not telepathic and neither are we!!

 

[Greg Taylor]

Wind yer neck in bonny lad..

When you go to your GP with some ailment or other, do you just sit in the chair and expect him/her to diagnose the problem without asking or you replying to questions??

(s)he is not telepathic and neither are we!!

After re-reading it I may have taken number 3 the wrong way!

Its for myself on my home!

Apologises!

 

[Greg Taylor]

1, Ok, did you test the whole system through before making any changes to confirm that diagnosis? Are you sure that all of the other parts of the system that you haven't changed are functioning correctly?

2, for the sake of not starting the usual riot I'm going to stay quiet on that one.

3, Who's playing a game? If you want advice then you need to provide all of the information, if you don't then people will ask for the information. If the system was originally fitted as early as the 60's then there is every possibility it started life as a gravity system which has been adapted into a fully pumped system and may not be following the standard y plan.

I have already advised you as to how to test the system to find the fault, you go through each point in the control system testing that it becomes either live or dead as expected when each control is operated.

1 - No, I diagnosed it as the thermostat to start with. Replaced that, and it was still very intermittent, so also changed the panel (also for cosmetic reasons as I had a hideous Dandfoss Randal!) yes, It is gravity fed... Is that where the problem lies?

2 - yeah your right, but I like to give things myself a go first and see myself as quite handy. Although I will never touch gas / mains electic.

3 - sorry I think I miss understood your initial post! It is a gravity fed system. So maybe I'm looking at a different plan?

Cheers

 

[davesparks]

It can't be a gravity system now if it's got a 3port mid position valve and a Worcester Ri boiler, at least not without something very unusual going on!
Don't get me started on Randall programmers, I can rant about them for hours!

You say you won't touch mains electrics, but here you are working on and asking about mains electrics?

I would suggest you are at a point where calling an electrician in to fix the system is probably the most sensible option. But try to make sure you get one who actually understands heating controls, there are many who pretend to be electricians but don't.

 

[Greg Taylor]

It can't be a gravity system now if it's got a 3port mid position valve and a Worcester Ri boiler, at least not without something very unusual going on!
Don't get me started on Randall programmers, I can rant about them for hours!

You say you won't touch mains electrics, but here you are working on and asking about mains electrics?

I would suggest you are at a point where calling an electrician in to fix the system is probably the most sensible option. But try to make sure you get one who actually understands heating controls, there are many who pretend to be electricians but don't.

That's the issue everything is set up like a Y Plan, but I have a tank in the loft which feeds the system. Any ideas? Or call in the 'experts'?

 

[davesparks]

That's the issue everything is set up like a Y Plan, but I have a tank in the loft which feeds the system. Any ideas? Or call in the 'experts'?

How many tanks in the loft, and are they big tanks or little tanks?

A small header tank would signify that you have an open vented heating system, and a large cold water storage tank(s) would suggest your hot water is from an open vented cylinder. Neither of which has anything to do with whether it is a gravity or fully pumped system.

If it all appears to be set up as per a Y plan then it'll be fully pumped. I only mentioned gravity as it is possible that with the age of the parts it may have been converted from one to a fully pumped system and so may not be following the 'wire by numbers' type of setup.

 

[123]

That's the issue everything is set up like a Y Plan, but I have a tank in the loft which feeds the system. Any ideas? Or call in the 'experts'?

Call the experts. A tank in the loft does not mean it's a gravity heating system, the HW and CH are more than likely pumped.

And as Dave said, get someone who understands heating. You'll end up replacing every part until you find the fault, penny wise pound foolish!

 

[telectrix]

grfeg, if you post your location, 1 of us may be close enough to help ( shut it , geordie! LOL.)