Your going to laugh lads!!!!!!! NVQ3 - Domestic!!!!!

[Electricalserv]

I love this little statement from Napit and this is going to ruffle a few feathers.

For those choosing the qualification route, the Level 3 NVQ Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installation Work in Dwellings should be available from the 1st January 2012 as the minimum qualification level for Qualified Supervisors responsible for electrical work carried out in domestic properties which comes under Part P of the Building Regulations (for England and Wales).


My bold!!!!

NVQ3 - for domestic premises will be available from 2012.

Looks like the City & Guilds NVQ3 now has a little sister.

 

[alarm man]

Ken I think people are over reacting here. If the JIB are on board aswell then it will be them and only them who drop the wages and form a 2 tier! Which I doubt. If anything they will put it the same as JIB wages

then you have the jib lads kicking off,saying im a proper spark he's a diet spark,and wait till the agencys get involved,diet spark rates for all..

 

[millwall ken]

Ken I think people are over reacting here. If the JIB are on board aswell then it will be them and only them who drop the wages and form a 2 tier! Which I doubt. If anything they will put it the same as JIB wages

Like I said mate, I don't like seeing the industry split, BUT I am in favour of anything that will drive up standards and get some bloody coin back onto our dinner tables. And if THIS IS that step then we shall have to wait and see. It has certainly produced one of the best debates that I've seen on this forum lately.

 

[millwall ken]

then you have the jib lads kicking off,saying im a proper spark he's a diet spark,and wait till the agencys get involved,diet spark rates for all..

Its certainly poses a question.

 

[Electricalserv]

then you have the jib lads kicking off,saying im a proper spark he's a diet spark,and wait till the agencys get involved,diet spark rates for all..

But why would he be a diet spark because he works on domestic? Again its people like you with that comment causing a divide. We're all spark we work in different sectors and thats that.


I was told a story the other day about a commercial spark. He was told to clip cables direct wall through mortar. He wasted half the packet of clips. Not used to working with clipped direct!

 

[alarm man]

But why would he be a diet spark because he works on domestic? Again its people like you with that comment causing a divide. We're all spark we work in different sectors and thats that.


I was told a story the other day about a commercial spark. He was told to clip cables direct wall through mortar. He wasted half the packet of clips. Not used to working with clipped direct!

because thats all he will be qualified to do,like previous post a spark should be able to turn his hand to all electrical work from domestic to marine to controls,industrial and even alarms,alarms are the easy bit tho..:shocked3:

 

[millwall ken]

But why would he be a diet spark because he works on domestic? Again its people like you with that comment causing a divide. We're all spark we work in different sectors and thats that.


I was told a story the other day about a commercial spark. He was told to clip cables direct wall through mortar. He wasted half the packet of clips. Not used to working with clipped direct!

Steady on fella, I think that alarm man is saying HOW the qualification will be perceived, NOT what he personally thinks.
Lets not get this brilliant debate closed boys.

 

[Engineer54]

and how would we attack these people, how will we get are way engineer 54, your a man with expierience help us, be our guide to sucess and rule out these croney money grabbing schemes, what do we need to do and when do we need to do it..

or you could all work for cash in hand ... or put prices up to go through books and pay these schemes

You need to come together via an association to get that ''Nation Register of Electricians'' Which is already in existence. I've seen it linked on the forum a couple of times. Unfortunately, i can't find where, or remember who posted it (old age i'm afraid..lol!!) But that to my mind, would be the first step, in taking the industry in the right direction...

These scheme providers are basically parasites that are feeding off the backs of working electricians, that give nothing to little in return, for the fee's they charge you. The only time they do any form of policing, is to protect themselves and their Logo, never to protect the industry against the incompetency of there members. Don't think they even support their members when in dispute with a client....

 

[JD6400]

Alarms are the easy bit .
Not in my world , bloody things !:svengo:

 

[alarm man]

ken your gonna have to stop this,im starting to agree with you..:wub:

 

[i=p/u]

aint easy , just earn your bucks watever way and spend on the one you love and if you dont love anyone and go toamsterdam every week, lifes to short if you smoke and you all smoke if you follow the iet

 

[Electricalserv]

This has the 5DW shaking in their boots. It can only be a good thing!!!!

 

[millwall ken]

ken your gonna have to stop this,im starting to agree with you..:wub:

Well you can bloody well stop that right now - I know... Whats your views on the Unions!!!

 

[millwall ken]

This has the 5DW shaking in their boots. It can only be a good thing!!!!

Which can only be a good thing.

 

[alarm man]

Well you can bloody well stop that right now - I know... Whats your views on the Unions!!!

nurse,nurse,he's out of bed again...:smug:

 

[baldsparkies]

All this is making me sad, Apprentiships, time served Apprentiships, college on day release for three years. (QUALIFIED) ELECRICIAN at the end, thats the way to go.
If you want to proggress further so be it BUT no one and I mean NO ONE should be able to call himself qualified in such a lethal industry as ours unless what Ive just said can become the norm again.
Yes times and regs have changed and update courses can take care of that.
But if all followed the old ways we can bring some respect back into what was once a respected trade.

And Engineer54 Your comments are spot on.

 

[millwall ken]

nurse,nurse,he's out of bed again...:smug:

Get away from me nurse, doctor says I'm well now...

 

[AP Electrical]

If this is going to happen nvq3 for domestic, surley they would remove domestic installs for 2356 or whatever it turns into ? , then by doing that a commercial spark is unqualified to work domestic ?, but there's little a commercial spark would find difficult on domestic, that not meant as an insult to anyone.
I'm doing my 2356 now and its half commercial half domestic - this just sounds like another qualification to take priced at £1000, there should be a qualification available awarded to people who can dicpher the city&guilds qualifications route.

 

[Electricalserv]

Alex the NVQ3 City & Guilds will stay the same. it wiull be a seperate qualification for domestic only.


City & Guilds will keep the original one that covers all sectors

 

[i=p/u]

think we need to riot as a whole, only soloution, even poxy teachers stand up for themelves but they do a hard job and are job aint easy

 

[jeremy]

All this is making me sad, Apprentiships, time served Apprentiships, college on day release for three years. (QUALIFIED) ELECRICIAN at the end, thats the way to go.
If you want to proggress further so be it BUT no one and I mean NO ONE should be able to call himself qualified in such a lethal industry as ours unless what Ive just said can become the norm again.
Yes times and regs have changed and update courses can take care of that.
But if all followed the old ways we can bring some respect back into what was once a respected trade.

And Engineer54 Your comments are spot on.

I tried to get an apprenticeship when I was at college (2000/2001) No one would take me on as I was too old (31). I taught myself, couldn't finish college with no-one to compile my dossier. I have 2391 and a gold JIB card, work a lot on High Speed Routes, (Highways) and Transmission Sites (Digital TV and Radio transmitter installation) and must be doing something right as our client requests me to lead work teams. Can I call myself an electrician?

 

[Engineer54]

Alex the NVQ3 City & Guilds will stay the same. it wiull be a seperate qualification for domestic only.


City & Guilds will keep the original one that covers all sectors

Ands that's the whole point of this debate!! ...There is, and should not be any classification or difference between electricians. That's a slippery road you won't ever recover from...

 

[Electricalserv]

Ands that's the whole point of this debate!! ...There is, and should not be any classification or difference between electricians. That's a slippery road you won't ever recover from...

Listen some JIB guys always say domestic sparks aren't electricians the industry needs tightening up blah blah blah. Industry failing us.


Well this is your industry tightening up the domestic sector. (the one effected by 5 day wonders) What do you want them to do? They've sat up and acted and the JIB are on the domestic scene now!!!


They are setting up a qualification to prove your competency in domestic installation!!

 

[Engineer54]

Think i've stated what needs to be done!! ...A minimum standard for ALL electricians, if that's an NVQ3 or it's equivalent, ...so be it!! It will still affect your 5 day wonders as you put it... Just stop this division lark, because down the road some, it will bite you, and you can take that to the bank!! But it'll be too late then...

 

[alarm man]

Listen some JIB guys always say domestic sparks aren't electricians the industry needs tightening up blah blah blah. Industry failing us.


Well this is your industry tightening up the domestic sector. (the one effected by 5 day wonders) What do you want them to do? They've sat up and acted and the JIB are on the domestic scene now!!!


They are setting up a qualification to prove your competency in domestic installation!!

i worked with jib sparks when i was a yougin,they could be doing a new build housing estate one day,production lines the next,ships the day after,being pigeon holed in one area is no good for any spark,its all sparky work

 

[AP Electrical]

Alex the NVQ3 City & Guilds will stay the same. it wiull be a seperate qualification for domestic only.


City & Guilds will keep the original one that covers all sectors

You can never tell were c&g are involved!!!!!, also I bet the last pound in my pocket a lower tech cert is to follow a domestic NVQ3 - if you think about it a lot of 2330 is 3phase and motors so they could get rid of that - then condense the h&s down so applicable to domestic, before you know it the 'bodies' will be offering a three week intensive tech cert for yep £1000..... If I was one of the 'bodies' thats what i'd be doing.

 

[Electricalserv]

AM you can't look past that alot of sparks do 1 sector and thats it. I was always told by my tutors. Find ONE that you're good at and stick at it.

Its ok being a jack of all sectors and a master of none.

 

[Electricalserv]

You can never tell were c&g are involved!!!!!, also I bet the last pound in my pocket a lower tech cert is to follow a domestic NVQ3 - if you think about it a lot of 2330 is 3phase and motors so they could get rid of that - then condense the h&s down so applicable to domestic, before you know it the 'bodies' will be offering a three week intensive tech cert for yep £1000..... If I was one of the 'bodies' thats what i'd be doing.

Probably right mate. The JIB won't accept it though. I really can't believe some users are objecting the idea after the crap we've had to put up with from the domestic installers 5 day wonders. This is a step in the right direction and excellent news for the qualified experienced domestic electricians with tech certs 17th edition & 2391 but without an NVQ3. Its exactly what I 've been after!

 

[alarm man]

Its ok being a jack of all sectors and a master of none.

id call it experience,being called a domestic sounds like a cook/housekeeper..a master domestic spark,i'll have to look that one up..

 

[Electricalserv]

id call it experience,being called a domestic sounds like a cook/housekeeper..a master domestic spark,i'll have to look that one up..

AM like it or not the industry has set a standard for domestic sparks that hopefully will keep 5 day wonders out and get better rates for FULLY QUALIFIED ASSESSED ELECTRICIANS working in the domestic sector!

 

[pennywise]

NVQ's aren't exactly the most stringent qualification around

 

[ezzzekiel]

reading through the jib draft it appears the same hoops will need to be jumped through to gain the domestic nvq. and there are pros and cons on both sides, the Electrical Trainee will be a thing of the past and so driving up standards also there are many firms who only work domestic so their apprentices cannot complete a jib approved as they dont cover the required work but the new qual will allow them the apprentiship in there sector.

the bad it divides the industry into them and us, chances are it will be used to class the Electrical Trainee as qualified in the same ammount of time.

the only real good point is that it has been noted that somethings need to be changed unfortunately like everything else in this country it will be messed up.

 

[Engineer54]

Listen some JIB guys always say domestic sparks aren't electricians the industry needs tightening up blah blah blah. Industry failing us.


Well this is your industry tightening up the domestic sector. (the one effected by 5 day wonders) What do you want them to do? They've sat up and acted and the JIB are on the domestic scene now!!!


They are setting up a qualification to prove your competency in domestic installation!!

Further,

.....who gives a monkeys what other sparks say, be they JIB or whatever!! I can remember in my day some electricians knocking ''house bashers'', ... did it affect those that were working on the massive house building of that time, ...No of course not!!

The thing is, that your no doing anyone any favors by this singling out one particular sector of our industry, and giving it it's own qualification. That Qualification is going to be useless for the rest of the industry, it's just going to end up, yet another meaningless qualification to hold.....

 

[Electricalserv]

EZZ if you're good enough you will pass the NVQ3 domestic without needing to install tray baskets and metal trunking!

 

[baldsparkies]

I tried to get an apprenticeship when I was at college (2000/2001) No one would take me on as I was too old (31). I taught myself, couldn't finish college with no-one to compile my dossier. I have 2391 and a gold JIB card, work a lot on High Speed Routes, (Highways) and Transmission Sites (Digital TV and Radio transmitter installation) and must be doing something right as our client requests me to lead work teams. Can I call myself an electrician?

And thats my whole point.
You SHOULD have been able to cover an apprentiship, but through no fault of your own you couldn't. Now your wide open to the money grabbers and scheme providers whims.

AS an example I am 58 years old, started my apprentiship in 1970 have a jib gold approved electrician card, a platinum electrical site managers card 236 part 1 and 2, 2391 leval 3 in inspection and testing, leval 3 16th and 17th editions along with ECS health and safety assesments. I finished my apprentiship in 1974. and I have been a qualified supervisor for over 10 years. There was no NVQ 3 in 1974, so I dont have one, I have been a qualified electrician since 1974 thats a long time commercial industrial domestic its all there. But I dont and would have had no reason to have an NVQ 3 so here I am 2011 58 years old without an NVQ3 suddenly I'm not qualified or competant, sorry but the whole thing is a money spinning farce. Yes get rid of the cowboys but now you and I are wide open to these money grabbers holding us to ransom and saying unless you pay us and cover this course, we wont accept your a qualified electrician. Its a joke.
We work hard over the years covering all kinds of courses and exams, and then a bunch of ****s sit around a table and suddenly decide that all our hard work means jack sh#t. its not on. Off soapbox with apoligies for ranting.

 

[Electricalserv]

Further,

.....who gives a monkeys what other sparks say, be they JIB or whatever!! I can remember in my day some electricians knocking ''house bashers'', ... did it affect those that were working on the massive house building of that time, ...No of course not!!

The thing is, that your no doing anyone any favors by this singling out one particular sector of our industry, and giving it it's own qualification. That Qualification is going to be useless for the rest of the industry, it's just going to end up, yet another meaningless qualification to hold.....

Not for lads wanting to be a competent domestic installer

 

[Electricalserv]

And thats my whole point.
You SHOULD have been able to cover an apprentiship, but through no fault of your own you couldn't. Now your wide open to the money grabbers and scheme providers whims.

AS an example I am 58 years old, started my apprentiship in 1970 have a jib gold approved electrician card, a platinum electrical site managers card 236 part 1 and 2, 2391 leval 3 in inspection and testing, leval 3 16th and 17th editions along with ECS health and safety assesments. I finished my apprentiship in 1974. and I have been a qualified supervisor for over 10 years. There was no NVQ 3 in 1974, so I dont have one, I have been a qualified electrician since 1974 thats a long time commercial industrial domestic its all there. But I dont and would have had no reason to have an NVQ 3 so here I am 2011 58 years old without an NVQ3 suddenly I'm not qualified or competant, sorry but the whole thing is a money spinning farce. Yes get rid of the cowboys but now you and I are wide open to these money grabbers holding us to ransom and saying unless you pay us and cover this course, we wont accept your a qualified electrician. Its a joke.

And leval 0 in spelling lol oj E54. You just made me laugh listing all thyem high quals with that spelling!

 

[alarm man]

And leval 0 in spelling lol oj E54. You just made me laugh listing all thyem high quals with that spelling!

youngin,dont drink if you cant handle it..

 

[Spudnik]

And leval 0 in spelling lol oj E54. You just made me laugh listing all thyem high quals with that spelling!

Really??

 

[Electricalserv]

Ahh wheres the banter on this forum!!! I post a thread on the Haye fight and it gets the odd reply. You post anything non electrical...The chit chat area and nobody wants to know. You try for some banter and everyone is serious. Lighten up everyone!

 

[AP Electrical]

And thats my whole point.
You SHOULD have been able to cover an apprentiship, but through no fault of your own you couldn't. Now your wide open to the money grabbers and scheme providers whims.

AS an example I am 58 years old, started my apprentiship in 1970 have a jib gold approved electrician card, a platinum electrical site managers card 236 part 1 and 2, 2391 leval 3 in inspection and testing, leval 3 16th and 17th editions along with ECS health and safety assesments. I finished my apprentiship in 1974. and I have been a qualified supervisor for over 10 years. There was no NVQ 3 in 1974, so I dont have one, I have been a qualified electrician since 1974 thats a long time commercial industrial domestic its all there. But I dont and would have had no reason to have an NVQ 3 so here I am 2011 58 years old without an NVQ3 suddenly I'm not qualified or competant, sorry but the whole thing is a money spinning farce. Yes get rid of the cowboys but now you and I are wide open to these money grabbers holding us to ransom and saying unless you pay us and cover this course, we wont accept your a qualified electrician. Its a joke.

It's a sad fact money rules, part p generates millions for the bodies involved and I dont think for one min there going to let that go!!!, be intrested to see how many cowboy sparks were prosecuted last year for not being registered. look at myhammer theres decoraters pricing electrical work up!!!, domestic nvq or not there will always be cowboys and punters who hire them - its not just about being in the schemes its about the gov enforcing the law which there not prepared to do imo.