Your going to laugh lads!!!!!!! NVQ3 - Domestic!!!!!

[Electricalserv]

I love this little statement from Napit and this is going to ruffle a few feathers.

For those choosing the qualification route, the Level 3 NVQ Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installation Work in Dwellings should be available from the 1st January 2012 as the minimum qualification level for Qualified Supervisors responsible for electrical work carried out in domestic properties which comes under Part P of the Building Regulations (for England and Wales).


My bold!!!!

NVQ3 - for domestic premises will be available from 2012.

Looks like the City & Guilds NVQ3 now has a little sister.

 

[Engineer54]

I think that being totally selfish on your part mate!!.... There are plenty of companies out there, that are employing electricians to work solely in the domestic sector. It's not just made up of sole traders such as your self....

 

[Electricalserv]

Found it JIB Domestic Electricians Gold Card.

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Page 3 is what we are looking at. New NVQ3 qualification

 

[millwall ken]

Isn't this just going to split the industry even further?

 

[alarm man]

diet spark that,rates will go down,then you have a two tier electrician,and wait for the customers saying how much,the lad down the road can do it half that and he's a proper spark..and what about those who will be employed,they will get less than other sparks,which will then drive down rates further,employers will send domestic sparks to big sites to save money,quality goes down etc,etc,etc

 

[Electricalserv]

This is the JIB bringing it out aswell!

 

[millwall ken]

diet spark that,rates will go down,then you have a two tier electrician,and wait for the customers saying how much,the lad down the road can do it half that and he's a proper spark..and what about those who will be employed,they will get less than other sparks,which will then drive down rates further,employers will send domestic sparks to big sites to save money,quality goes down etc,etc,etc

Deffo don't like this idea mate - it definately has the potential to cause a two-tier trade. For God's sake theres' no money in the domestic game as it is. I can't see how this will do anything to drive up prices, although it is a good step towards driving up perceived levels of competence. We're have to wait and see what they come out with before passing judgement on the actual qualification.

 

[Electricalserv]

Ken I think people are over reacting here. If the JIB are on board aswell then it will be them and only them who drop the wages and form a 2 tier! Which I doubt. If anything they will put it the same as JIB wages

 

[Engineer54]

Too may hands stretched out to bleed you lot dry, all trying to divide and rule, Get shot of all of them and and get that ''National Register of Electricians''
As a Registered Electrician, you won't need Scam Providers, you won't need the JIB, or any other body to ply your trade for remuneration!! You will be Qualified Registered Tradesman in your own right!!!

 

[i=p/u]

and how would we attack these people, how will we get are way engineer 54, your a man with expierience help us, be our guide to sucess and rule out these croney money grabbing schemes, what do we need to do and when do we need to do it..

or you could all work for cash in hand ... or put prices up to go through books and pay these schemes

 

[millwall ken]

If you guys cannot see this as being a good thing I don't know what can happen in the industry that will be.


Its the domestic sector which has been hit by these 5 day courses, not industrial or commercial.


By introducing a domestic NVQ3 with the 2330 tech cert or whichever it is now. Spread over a year on-site portfolio and only allowing this for entry plus 17th & 2391 you are stopping the 5DW or at least slowing them down.

It boils down to - if you are making it NVQ3 as minimum to work on domestic premises then the only substance you have for this is to provide a NVQ3 for domestic only. Because As domestic sparks we can't put tray work or basket work into our portfolio because we don't do it.


If you can't see this as a good idea for all parties involved in Part P I don't know what you will.


Its the JIB & Unions seperating the industry by asking for the NVQ3 for a gold card. If you work on doemstic you don't need it!

I understand what your saying; and your fears mate, and I wouldn't trust those sneaky b******s at Chicken JIBlets further than I could throw them. The saying 'devide and rule' could of been thought up with them in mind. However I still don't like the idea of seperate qualifications for seperate fields.

 

[alarm man]

Ken I think people are over reacting here. If the JIB are on board aswell then it will be them and only them who drop the wages and form a 2 tier! Which I doubt. If anything they will put it the same as JIB wages

then you have the jib lads kicking off,saying im a proper spark he's a diet spark,and wait till the agencys get involved,diet spark rates for all..

 

[millwall ken]

Ken I think people are over reacting here. If the JIB are on board aswell then it will be them and only them who drop the wages and form a 2 tier! Which I doubt. If anything they will put it the same as JIB wages

Like I said mate, I don't like seeing the industry split, BUT I am in favour of anything that will drive up standards and get some bloody coin back onto our dinner tables. And if THIS IS that step then we shall have to wait and see. It has certainly produced one of the best debates that I've seen on this forum lately.

 

[millwall ken]

then you have the jib lads kicking off,saying im a proper spark he's a diet spark,and wait till the agencys get involved,diet spark rates for all..

Its certainly poses a question.

 

[Electricalserv]

then you have the jib lads kicking off,saying im a proper spark he's a diet spark,and wait till the agencys get involved,diet spark rates for all..

But why would he be a diet spark because he works on domestic? Again its people like you with that comment causing a divide. We're all spark we work in different sectors and thats that.


I was told a story the other day about a commercial spark. He was told to clip cables direct wall through mortar. He wasted half the packet of clips. Not used to working with clipped direct!

 

[alarm man]

But why would he be a diet spark because he works on domestic? Again its people like you with that comment causing a divide. We're all spark we work in different sectors and thats that.


I was told a story the other day about a commercial spark. He was told to clip cables direct wall through mortar. He wasted half the packet of clips. Not used to working with clipped direct!

because thats all he will be qualified to do,like previous post a spark should be able to turn his hand to all electrical work from domestic to marine to controls,industrial and even alarms,alarms are the easy bit tho..:shocked3:

 

[millwall ken]

But why would he be a diet spark because he works on domestic? Again its people like you with that comment causing a divide. We're all spark we work in different sectors and thats that.


I was told a story the other day about a commercial spark. He was told to clip cables direct wall through mortar. He wasted half the packet of clips. Not used to working with clipped direct!

Steady on fella, I think that alarm man is saying HOW the qualification will be perceived, NOT what he personally thinks.
Lets not get this brilliant debate closed boys.

 

[Engineer54]

and how would we attack these people, how will we get are way engineer 54, your a man with expierience help us, be our guide to sucess and rule out these croney money grabbing schemes, what do we need to do and when do we need to do it..

or you could all work for cash in hand ... or put prices up to go through books and pay these schemes

You need to come together via an association to get that ''Nation Register of Electricians'' Which is already in existence. I've seen it linked on the forum a couple of times. Unfortunately, i can't find where, or remember who posted it (old age i'm afraid..lol!!) But that to my mind, would be the first step, in taking the industry in the right direction...

These scheme providers are basically parasites that are feeding off the backs of working electricians, that give nothing to little in return, for the fee's they charge you. The only time they do any form of policing, is to protect themselves and their Logo, never to protect the industry against the incompetency of there members. Don't think they even support their members when in dispute with a client....

 

[JD6400]

Alarms are the easy bit .
Not in my world , bloody things !:svengo:

 

[alarm man]

ken your gonna have to stop this,im starting to agree with you..:wub:

 

[i=p/u]

aint easy , just earn your bucks watever way and spend on the one you love and if you dont love anyone and go toamsterdam every week, lifes to short if you smoke and you all smoke if you follow the iet

 

[Electricalserv]

This has the 5DW shaking in their boots. It can only be a good thing!!!!

 

[millwall ken]

ken your gonna have to stop this,im starting to agree with you..:wub:

Well you can bloody well stop that right now - I know... Whats your views on the Unions!!!

 

[millwall ken]

This has the 5DW shaking in their boots. It can only be a good thing!!!!

Which can only be a good thing.

 

[alarm man]

Well you can bloody well stop that right now - I know... Whats your views on the Unions!!!

nurse,nurse,he's out of bed again...:smug:

 

[baldsparkies]

All this is making me sad, Apprentiships, time served Apprentiships, college on day release for three years. (QUALIFIED) ELECRICIAN at the end, thats the way to go.
If you want to proggress further so be it BUT no one and I mean NO ONE should be able to call himself qualified in such a lethal industry as ours unless what Ive just said can become the norm again.
Yes times and regs have changed and update courses can take care of that.
But if all followed the old ways we can bring some respect back into what was once a respected trade.

And Engineer54 Your comments are spot on.

 

[millwall ken]

nurse,nurse,he's out of bed again...:smug:

Get away from me nurse, doctor says I'm well now...

 

[AP Electrical]

If this is going to happen nvq3 for domestic, surley they would remove domestic installs for 2356 or whatever it turns into ? , then by doing that a commercial spark is unqualified to work domestic ?, but there's little a commercial spark would find difficult on domestic, that not meant as an insult to anyone.
I'm doing my 2356 now and its half commercial half domestic - this just sounds like another qualification to take priced at £1000, there should be a qualification available awarded to people who can dicpher the city&guilds qualifications route.

 

[Electricalserv]

Alex the NVQ3 City & Guilds will stay the same. it wiull be a seperate qualification for domestic only.


City & Guilds will keep the original one that covers all sectors

 

[i=p/u]

think we need to riot as a whole, only soloution, even poxy teachers stand up for themelves but they do a hard job and are job aint easy

 

[jeremy]

All this is making me sad, Apprentiships, time served Apprentiships, college on day release for three years. (QUALIFIED) ELECRICIAN at the end, thats the way to go.
If you want to proggress further so be it BUT no one and I mean NO ONE should be able to call himself qualified in such a lethal industry as ours unless what Ive just said can become the norm again.
Yes times and regs have changed and update courses can take care of that.
But if all followed the old ways we can bring some respect back into what was once a respected trade.

And Engineer54 Your comments are spot on.

I tried to get an apprenticeship when I was at college (2000/2001) No one would take me on as I was too old (31). I taught myself, couldn't finish college with no-one to compile my dossier. I have 2391 and a gold JIB card, work a lot on High Speed Routes, (Highways) and Transmission Sites (Digital TV and Radio transmitter installation) and must be doing something right as our client requests me to lead work teams. Can I call myself an electrician?