NICEIC Certification Scheme Max ZS allowed on NICEIC cert seems wrong?

[davesparks]

Won't happen and not notifying building control won't bring a prosecution either.

I can notify building control without the aid of as am if it is necessary, just phone them up and speak to them!

 

[trev]

if your work is up to standard it's not a problem

And therein lies the problem. The various operators do not care about the standard of installs. They care about the cheques clearing, that has been proven time after time after time. The NIC themselves could not give the parliamentary enquiry figures when asked how many people had failed assessments in the last year. They couldn't give numbers when asked how many they'd kicked out for shoddy workmanship

 

[Plonker 3]

Because you need to notify. I love how people call it a scam. It's regulated and safer.

Really, you have proof of that?

 

[Clark3169]

Is that so ?, then if that's the case why the up and coming reg in AMD3 wrt consumer units ?

I'll tell you why... because now all fires are more accurately reported to the home office about their exact cause. General numbers of electrical fires are down but a high percentage of fires caused by electrical installations begin and spread from plastic consumer units.

 

[Clark3169]

Really, you have proof of that?

Proof of what?

 

[Anthony S]

I'll tell you why... because now all fires are more accurately reported to the home office about their exact cause. General numbers of electrical fires are down but a high percentage of fires caused by electrical installations begin and spread from plastic consumer units.

Evidence or Hearsay ?

 

[davesparks]

Because you need to notify. I love how people call it a scam. It's regulated and safer.

So phone building control and speak to them if the job needs notifying!

It is not regulated or in any way safer! They let any idiot in to their clubs as long as they can pay their subscription.
I was with ELECSA for one year, the assessment was a joke, the bloke missed the deliberate mistakes I had left in the installation and refused to accept regulations which I showed him in the book in favour of his opinion of what should be done.

Have you never tried to report dangerous and substandard work by a scheme member to their scheme? I have, they don't want to know and will not do anything about it.

 

[trev]

Because you need to notify. I love how people call it a scam. It's regulated and safer.

What does notifying do for you, the homeowner or electrical safety in general? Does it make your installation safer?
People call it a scam because the scheme operators bleat on about upholding standards yet will badge up anything with a pulse, a cheque book and a few other odds and sods.
It's regulated and safer? How many people have been stripped of membership for shoddy workmanship?
If you honestly believe that about regulation and safety then I have some snake oil to sell. I'll let you into a secret, the streets of London are paved with gold and the moon really is made of cheese.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Now all my work for a builder, new, refurbs etc, Building Control and outside Building Control accept my Electrical Certificates with a photo copy of my JIB card with the 17th & 2391.

building control accept this as notification ?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Then you may have a case to take him to court if you refuses to employ you on that basis.

they would just get another firm who is registered.

 

[Clark3169]

The CPS operators and their vested interests are the reason why we are now looking at the farcical issuance of the regulation for "non combustible CUs".
The CPS operators and their vested interests are the reason we have armies of under trained, under qualified monkeys masquerading as electricians causing CU fires in the first place.
The CPS operators and their vested interests are responsible for forcing these under qualified, under trained monkeys on an unsuspecting public who are sold the lie that anyone with a badge is up to standard and anyone who has not is a cowboy.
Part P is a bad joke. Had it been your or my child who got a belt (perish the thought) then it would never have happened, it was rushed through as a knee jerk reaction to an MPs daughter being on the receiving end of a fistfull of current following some dodgy DIY. Please explain how Part P has made the industry better because I, and thousands of other electricians up and down the country can't see it.

Sorry but you obviously are making this up and not speaking from experience. I however am and a far larger proportion of these fires originated from uncertified work carried out by non registered people.

 

[telectrix]

I'll tell you why... because now all fires are more accurately reported to the home office about their exact cause. General numbers of electrical fires are down but a high percentage of fires caused by electrical installations begin and spread from plastic consumer units.

which fires are caused by poor installation methods, mainly due to a lack of training, by so called electricians who are welcomed with open arms by these scams, who's main driving force is the mighty £. now they think that making them use torque drivers , the problem will be solved. purse and sow's ear springs to my mind.

 

[Plonker 3]

Proof of what?

That the scams have made electrical installations since Part P and its inception safer

 

[Clark3169]

Sure some Cowboys can slip through the net but on the whole the regulation has brought about a reduction in poor installs mainly by the fact that even if someone has done a short inadequate course then passed a test and got registered they are better than Mr DIY with no experience.

 

[Anthony S]

building control accept this as notification ?

The area's I have worked have and when Drawings are submitted to for passing of Building Regulations. The box is Ticked for a Competent Person doing the Electrical work and Building Control accept me as being Competent and there is a box to tick for the Part P scheme.

You need to talk to them as well that's what I done, spoke to head of department. That's who I see about the fire regs with loft conversions and fitting a system so the doors don't need to be fire rated.

 

[spark 68]

I'll tell you why... because now all fires are more accurately reported to the home office about their exact cause. General numbers of electrical fires are down but a high percentage of fires caused by electrical installations begin and spread from plastic consumer units.

B@llocks, it is because London Fire Brigade highlighted a larger number of poor workmanship/ incorrect terminations in domestic installs by inexperienced people, but as the scam providers wanted to maintain the status quo (anyone whose cheque clears) they bribed or convinced the IET to treat the symptoms rather than the root cause, and we all ended up with a halfarsed reg as a consequence.

 

[Redvanman]

Customer I have picked had an extension wired by a non registered electrician so it had not been registered for part p
The LBA would not sign it off without part p so they sent there own testing engineer (sub contractor) and charged £300 to test 2 circuits
now if that's the general charge then surely it's best to register to provide a better service to the customer
2 or 3 jobs and the cost to register is cheaper than LBA charges

 

[Plonker 3]

The last thing I am saying on this thread.

 

[trev]

Sorry but you obviously are making this up and not speaking from experience. I however am and a far larger proportion of these fires originated from uncertified work carried out by non registered people.

Mate, I'm 52 years old. I've been doing this since I was 16, I'm properly qualified and have experience in a wide variety of the many aspects of this trade. I have never had one of my CU installations catch fire.
Now are you seriously telling me that because I am not CPS registered I am somehow incompetent?
CUs catch fire for one reason and one reason only. Poor termination of cables.
Now who is more likely to terminate a cable poorly, someone who was stacking shelves in Tesco a few weeks back and has passed some silly open book exam? Or me, an apprenticeship trained, properly qualified electrician with over 30 years of experience under his belt?

 

[Anthony S]

Customer I have picked had an extension wired by a non registered electrician so it had not been registered for part p
The LBA would not sign it off without part p so they sent there own testing engineer (sub contractor) and charged £300 to test 2 circuits
now if that's the general charge then surely it's best to register to provide a better service to the customer
2 or 3 jobs and the cost to register is cheaper than LBA charges

Sooner stick pins in my eyes than have people feed off my back.

 

[telectrix]

B@llocks, it is because London Fire Brigade highlighted a larger number of poor workmanship/ incorrect terminations in domestic installs by inexperienced people, but as the scam providers wanted to maintain the status quo (anyone whose cheque clears) they bribed or convinced the IET to treat the symptoms rather than the root cause, and we all ended up with a halfarsed reg as a consequence.

my thoughts entirely. no part p or any other reg. is going to stop the cowboys. look what happened in the states in 1920 when they banned booze. make anything illegal and the black market takes over.

 

[Clark3169]

That the scams have made electrical installations since Part P and its inception safer

Well if I could be bothered I could gather the stats from work for you or you could take my word for it. Tell me, before regulation if you left a loose connection in a property miles from where you lived and it burnt to the ground. Would you have ever known about it? The answer is no. I however would and I can tell you from first hand experience that the number of fires caused by poor electrical installations has gone down and before you start to talk to me about how the government fix the stats they can only do that after we are submitted them and I'm afraid to all you part P haters out there the figures speak for themselves.

 

[telectrix]

@ trev. we must both have the same hymm sheet. when was it translated into geordie? :49:

 

[Anthony S]

they would just get another firm who is registered.

If your man is adamant then you have to play ball, where's I don't.

If I don't do my own work Ill just back on site and earn a living with no head aches lol

 

[Plonker 3]

Well if I could be bothered I could gather the stats from work for you or you could take my word for it. Tell me, before regulation if you left a loose connection in a property miles from where you lived and it burnt to the ground. Would you have ever known about it? The answer is no. I however would and I can tell you from first hand experience that the number of fires caused by poor electrical installations has gone down and before you start to talk to me about how the government fix the stats they can only do that after we are submitted them and I'm afraid to all you part P haters out there the figures speak for themselves.

Right I changed my mind.

If a installation I worked on caused a fire then yes I would know about it as I would have been pulled up for arson due to the fact I always a relevant certificate as in BS7671 sonthey would be able to find out who installed it.

Its the ones who dont issue certs that are the problem, now tell me how does Part P stop this happening?

 

[trev]

@ trev. we must both have the same hymm sheet. when was it translated into geordie? :49:

You see that's where you're making your mistake mate. The Venerable Bede wasn't translating all that guff from Latin into English, he was dumbing it down so you lot could understand the general gist of it.
Obviously you're all still missing the finer points of it but we let you all off with it because you're just Geordies with your brains kicked out.

 

[spark 68]

Well if I could be bothered I could gather the stats from work for you or you could take my word for it. Tell me, before regulation if you left a loose connection in a property miles from where you lived and it burnt to the ground. Would you have ever known about it? The answer is no. I however would and I can tell you from first hand experience that the number of fires caused by poor electrical installations has gone down and before you start to talk to me about how the government fix the stats they can only do that after we are submitted them and I'm afraid to all you part P haters out there the figures speak for themselves.

Your not called Nicholas by any chance are you ?

 

[Plonker 3]

Well if I could be bothered I could gather the stats from work for you or you could take my word for it. Tell me, before regulation if you left a loose connection in a property miles from where you lived and it burnt to the ground. Would you have ever known about it? The answer is no. I however would and I can tell you from first hand experience that the number of fires caused by poor electrical installations has gone down and before you start to talk to me about how the government fix the stats they can only do that after we are submitted them and I'm afraid to all you part P haters out there the figures speak for themselves.

Oh and 74% of statitics are made up so they prove nothing.

 

[davesparks]

Customer I have picked had an extension wired by a non registered electrician so it had not been registered for part p
The LBA would not sign it off without part p so they sent there own testing engineer (sub contractor) and charged £300 to test 2 circuits
now if that's the general charge then surely it's best to register to provide a better service to the customer
2 or 3 jobs and the cost to register is cheaper than LBA charges

If the extension was subject to full planning permission and building regs then informing building control that an unregistered but qualified electrician was doing the work would have negated that charge and any electrical inspections would have to have been carried out for the standard building regs inspection charge which was paid anyway for the buildings regs inspection for all of the other building regs.

As it is they may be able to claim back against building control for overcharging them for that inspection.

 

[Redvanman]

Sooner stick pins in my eyes than have people feed off my back.

Makes no sense that statement
plenty of businesses make money off the back of your work

 

[Clark3169]

Mate, I'm 52 years old. I've been doing this since I was 16, I'm properly qualified and have experience in a wide variety of the many aspects of this trade. I have never had one of my CU installations catch fire.
Now are you seriously telling me that because I am not CPS registered I am somehow incompetent?
CUs catch fire for one reason and one reason only. Poor termination of cables.
Now who is more likely to terminate a cable poorly, someone who was stacking shelves in Tesco a few weeks back and has passed some silly open book exam? Or me, an apprenticeship trained, properly qualified electrician with over 30 years of experience under his belt?

First off mate no I am not saying you are incompetent at all. Second you wouldn't message tilt have found out if any of your installs had ever caught fire (I'm sure they haven't though) my point is your a fully qualified spark and install very safe work, the semi trained Tescos guy will install safe work to it's the third category that you missed out which is DIY Dave who will cause the fires and since part p has been introduced it has reduced the number of DIY Daves thus less fires. The experience I was referring to is not you lack of electrical experience it's was the fire experience. I'm a fire officer and have seen the effect part p has had first hand.

 

[Anthony S]

Well if I could be bothered I could gather the stats from work for you or you could take my word for it. Tell me, before regulation if you left a loose connection in a property miles from where you lived and it burnt to the ground. Would you have ever known about it? The answer is no. I however would and I can tell you from first hand experience that the number of fires caused by poor electrical installations has gone down and before you start to talk to me about how the government fix the stats they can only do that after we are submitted them and I'm afraid to all you part P haters out there the figures speak for themselves.

So how does the above concern me ? I issue Certificates and don't belong to a scheme and Building Control sign off my work and my Certificate is given a code number on their system. Therefore I am on record with them as doing the work.

 

[Plonker 3]

Be intresting to see these "stats" and then break them down into caused by so called Part P electricians and how many caused by "non part p" electricians

 

[telectrix]

You see that's where you're making your mistake mate. The Venerable Bede wasn't translating all that guff from Latin into English, he was dumbing it down so you lot could understand the general gist of it.
Obviously you're all still missing the finer points of it but we let you all off with it because you're just Geordies with your brains kicked out.

did geordies ever have brains to be kicked out? :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[Anthony S]

Makes no sense that statement
plenty of businesses make money off the back of your work

But I get something for my money, Fuel for my van, materials for the job, tools to work with, the list is endless.

 

[ImpededLoop]

Sorry but you obviously are making this up and not speaking from experience. I however am and a far larger proportion of these fires originated from uncertified work carried out by non registered people.

I am genuinely interested to see the figures to back up the reasons for the upcoming changes to consumer unit construction. Do you know if it's available online?

Having been involved in committee environments for most of my career, I'm slightly skeptical about the gravity of the problem and somewhat suspicious that this was one persons pet subject that has been accepted without full due diligence.

I hope that I am wrong and I am interested to see the figures to back up the new regulation.

 

[Clark3169]

Oh and 74% of statitics are made up so they prove nothing.

Thats simply not true as its part of my job to accurately report these figures and I've seen first hand the positive effect part p has had. I know you love to hate it because it's an expense and a inconvenience to be tested etc... but you can't change the facts that it has made things safer.

 

[spark 68]

If the extension was subject to full planning permission and building regs then informing building control that an unregistered but qualified electrician was doing the work would have negated that charge and any electrical inspections would have to have been carried out for the standard building regs inspection charge which was paid anyway for the buildings regs inspection for all of the other building regs.

As it is they may be able to claim back against building control for overcharging them for that inspection.

Not now mate, the Electrics have been removed from the LABC plans etc. they are to be paid for in addition if required, ie. as a separate item, it is cheaper to employ a CPS member to sign the electrics off, unless you can swing a deal yourself with your LABC.

 

[Clark3169]

I am genuinely interested to see the figures to back up the reasons for the upcoming changes to consumer unit construction. Do you know if it's available online?

Having been involved in committee environments for most of my career, I'm slightly skeptical about the gravity of the problem and somewhat suspicious that this was one persons pet subject that has been accepted without full due diligence.

I hope that I am wrong and I am interested to see the figures to back up the new regulation.

The home office is the place to get that info but speaking from experience I've seen many of these fires first hand. I am a firefighter and most of these fires were from plastic units installed before part p or by non registered people.

 

[Plonker 3]

How many of these fires are in domestic premises and how many are in non domestic premises?

How can you distinguish between a fire caused by a bad connection and one caused by faulty parts?