Wages we should be paid top rates

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Discuss Wages we should be paid top rates in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

I always think Electricians are daft in my area maybe it's all over

Where I live there are a disproportionate number of Electricians/ companies for the population here which does keep prices down,
I did ok self employed for a few years then started seeing a new companies van every couple of days ,So I got out of the rat race
I've had customers say they've had 7/8 quotes! and I was too expensive sometimes undercut by 2/3rds of mine

people working for themselves quoting £20 an hour as an hourly wage in their pockets no overheads no business sense at all


I used to ask for the cheapest quote guys number and say I'll quote a job and get him to do the work!


Also lots of Plumbers here

Most firms I've worked for undercut ruthlessly to get jobs, lots of firms have closed, lots of new start ups to replace them.
All the Plumbers in similar situation put their prices up!

Hence they all seem to have nice houses and cars now!
 
Yes, DT1991, I ran a company with 2 others, and the 2008 crash hurt us very badly. Up til then we gave all employees a raise and a bonus every year. After then we didn't, but they took a voluntary pay cut of 10% to avoid any redundancies, and I and my fellow bosses often took no salary just so we could pay the staff and keep them in a job. We managed to revert to their usual pay after 2 years, during which time the bosses had been paid only every 2 months, and not at usual rates.
Did they thank us for keeping bread on their tables?
nope! They just moaned constantly!
Now I work only for me, no employees, no offices, nothing...I just do what I want, don't have to bother about NIC, tax, sick pay, holiday pay...
Moral: Keep it simple, keep it tight...and be creative with your accounting!
 
The trade is ----ed. Any spark has these options available. Work your arse off trying to set up on your own, maybe running your health into the ground as a result. Depending on what type of person you are you have to be tough and durable. It is stressful and will kill you if you let it. I do mean literally kill you. Some people are just not cut out for it and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you have to be honest with yourself. If you stress easy don’t do it. If you have a family to support then that is a good and a bad thing depending on if it works out. there’s no way I can put the hours in required to be a proper dad and work 7 days a week, trying to run a business and be the level of Dad that I want to be. Correct me if I’m wrong but I just can’t see how you can do both. Kids are kids for a short time and you never get that time back. Don’t waste it being stuck at work 7 days a week. They will hate you for it. Next option you have is self employed which is also tough. Subbying to companies from what I know doesn’t offer much more than being direct by the time you take out fuel and van expenses etc, unless you work away all week. Price work is the way to go for subbying. But that is also hard. Do what is best for you and your family. But realise that Sparkying is not the glamorous Cat walk everyone thinks it is. Come to terms with that and make the best of it or get out of it. There’s no shame in being Cards In despite what people say. Subbying does not mean your poo smells of rosemary. At the end of it we all end up the same way. The only respect that matters is self respect. Just make sure that you can live with whatever decision you make.
 
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Murdoch said:
...My kids haven't got a chance ......... unless the misses and I get run over....
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It's certainly harder to get on the property ladder now than 25 years ago... but nowhere near as hard as the media like to make it out to be.

There was a thing on the radio about it a few months back... youngsters calling in to say how they had done it... it was amusing because the show obviously wanted to make the point about how difficult it was... but many callers said they'd just had to save up really hard and work long hours to do it. That's exactly how it was when I first bought... having 2 jobs, not going out, not going on holidays etc. etc...
 
Zerax said:
It's certainly harder to get on the property ladder now than 25 years ago... but nowhere near as hard as the media like to make it out to be.
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with that. As usual location matters and here (in Surrey) a 1 bed flat would be around £200K, so this has a huge impact on people wanting to buy as they need £30K to £40K deposit ........ so even if they cut out holidays, cars, nights out, new trainers and phones, they still have a lot of saving to do ....

When I joined the housing market, my studio flat cost about 4 x salary, the same flat now would be around £250K according to rightmove ...... and I don't see many people earning £60K plus in their early twenties
 
Know of a few people and family down here that bought in they 20’s and are now selling up and moving up north.......basically semi retirement in they late 40’s, and that purely on how much they’ve made on a house not heard from one that’s regretted it either, the prices down here are insane at the moment, I paid £80000 for a run down place in 2010 and sold it in 2016 for over £300000, I’ve no idea how people afford em but they do.....agree with @Murdoch its certainty not on 4 times they salary anymore.....
 
Murdoch said:
Not sure I agree with that. As usual location matters and here (in Surrey) a 1 bed flat would be around £200K, so this has a huge impact on people wanting to buy as they need £30K to £40K deposit ........ so even if they cut out holidays, cars, nights out, new trainers and phones, they still have a lot of saving to do ....

When I joined the housing market, my studio flat cost about 4 x salary, the same flat now would be around £250K according to rightmove ...... and I don't see many people earning £60K plus in their early twenties
Click to expand...

It's kind of mostly been the case that to get a foot on the property ladder compromises have to be made on location, certainly from my experience.

I'm lucky in that I've always lived in areas with reasonable property prices.

The downside of that of course is that I would not be able to move to Surrey without a mortgage. Fortunately I have absolutely no intention of moving to Surrey. :D
 
ferg said:
It's kind of mostly been the case that to get a foot on the property ladder compromises have to be made on location, certainly from my experience.

I'm lucky in that I've always lived in areas with reasonable property prices.

The downside of that of course is that I would not be able to move to Surrey without a mortgage. Fortunately I have absolutely no intention of moving to Surrey. :D
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Don’t blame ya ferg, it’s bloody stunning up where you are!
 
ferg said:
The downside of that of course is that I would not be able to move to Surrey without a mortgage. Fortunately I have absolutely no intention of moving to Surrey. :D
Click to expand...

Friends of ours relocated to just outside Inverness - and they know its a 1 way ticket ............ that said parts of Scotland are truly stunning, but whether I would want to live their is another subject!
 
I reckon this thread is pointing towards the Arms with regards wages and prices!
 
I charge what I class to be an acceptable hourly wage. A customer recently said they'd be happy to pay me whatever I charge them as they trust me, that felt good. Another customer recently was not happy to accept my quote as they said they could get it much cheaper.

I think we place too much emphasis on what price we charge. I think price is just one factor in whether we get work or not. Also, if your rate is too low that can actually put people off as they (to a degree) equate quality/experience with price.

If you do a good job you can charge more.
If you are polite, friendly you can charge more.
If you are professional and genuinely trustworthy you can charge more.
Plus I think you need to be consistent with all of the above, not just do them at the beginning and think you have the customer for life.

I suppose if you enjoy your job you'll automatically do all of the above, so basically all we have to do is 'be happy' ..problem solved :)
 
Murdoch said:
...When I joined the housing market, my studio flat cost about 4 x salary, the same flat now would be around £250K according to rightmove ...... and I don't see many people earning £60K plus in their early twenties
Click to expand...
Yeah... but it's far cheaper these days to buy... we had almost 10% interest costs back then ! And you needed at least 10% deposit compared to 5% minimums these days... and no 'help to buy' schemes...
 
Zerax said:
Yeah... but it's far cheaper these days to buy... we had almost 10% interest costs back then ! And you needed at least 10% deposit compared to 5% minimums these days... and no 'help to buy' schemes...
Click to expand...

Still don’t agree with you ....10% of £100k is less than 20% of £200k and the killer these days will be when interest rates start going up from historic lows

It’s all about disposable incomes AND if you start off in a small property with 2 incomes and no kids, what happens when you have 2 kids and 1 income?

Low interest rates mean little or no pay rises, so the ratio of mortgage to income hardly moves .... whereas back in the 80’s a few payrises meant your ratio of income to mortgage moved a lot.....
 
Murdoch said:
Not sure I agree with that. As usual location matters and here (in Surrey) a 1 bed flat would be around £200K, so this has a huge impact on people wanting to buy as they need £30K to £40K deposit ........ so even if they cut out holidays, cars, nights out, new trainers and phones, they still have a lot of saving to do ....

When I joined the housing market, my studio flat cost about 4 x salary, the same flat now would be around £250K according to rightmove ...... and I don't see many people earning £60K plus in their early twenties
Click to expand...
I agree with that. I saved thousands for a deposit on a house. Worked loads of hours, weekends etc, then before I bought a house I got testicular cancer and had to have 12 months off. So I had to live on all the money I saved. So now I’m still renting. It’s been a long road back to work and I’m still not right even two years later. Chemo messes you up for life. But I’m still here. I couldn’t put myself through that agin working all those hours and not having holidays. I wouldn’t be able to keep up the pace now. I’m shattered these days after a 45 hour week. I’m just glad to be alive. If I end up buying a house one day then happy days, if I don’t then it is what it is. My health is more important to me. And I don’t even know if I will make it to 65 without being morbid lol. So I’m not worrying about what happens when I get there financially. People worry about the future to much and forget to actually live. I think if your gona buy a house you need to save up while you still live with parents. And this is not taught to us at school like it should be.
 
Zerax said:
Yeah... but it's far cheaper these days to buy... we had almost 10% interest costs back then ! And you needed at least 10% deposit compared to 5% minimums these days... and no 'help to buy' schemes...
Click to expand...

Help to buy is a con, me on a wage in London back in 1985 bought a 4 bed semi for £48k on a sparks wages that same house in now worth £1.2M if I could earn £300k per year as a sparks I may consider taking a wage cut to do something that I enjoy............
 
Zerax said:
Yeah... but it's far cheaper these days to buy... we had almost 10% interest costs back then ! And you needed at least 10% deposit compared to 5% minimums these days... and no 'help to buy' schemes...
Click to expand...
Wages back then were more realistic in relation to house prices than now.
SWD said:
Help to buy is a con, me on a wage in London back in 1985 bought a 4 bed semi for £48k on a sparks wages that same house in now worth £1.2M if I could earn £300k per year as a sparks I may consider taking a wage cut to do something that I enjoy............
Click to expand...
i agree. Help to buy is just another form of debt. And the houses they offer on help to buy are normally £200,000 plus. If you need to resort to help to buy then not in a position to buy a 200k house. In Germany 90% rent. It’s not the done thing to buy. I think it’s too far beyond a lot of people’s reaches these days. People just aren’t earning enough money to afford to buy because wages haven’t caught up
 
Gary Moore said:
Wages back then were more realistic in relation to house prices than now.

i agree. Help to buy is just another form of debt. And the houses they offer on help to buy are normally £200,000 plus. If you need to resort to help to buy then not in a position to buy a 200k house. In Germany 90% rent. It’s not the done thing to buy. I think it’s too far beyond a lot of people’s reaches these days. People just aren’t earning enough money to afford to buy because wages haven’t caught up
Click to expand...
The ones in power and I mean the real ones in power just want us all in perpetual debt, from student loans through to mortgages and PCP loans as its a control mechanism and then when you die you get arse raped for inheritance tax where that money could really help your children/grandchildren get a foot on the ladder.

The working classes or what's left of them don't have time to demonstrate/riot like they did in the past its all the Liberal rich elite that can afford to do that nowadays the scum on lifetime benefits don't want to rock the boat as they have it far too good nicking tools from vans, shop lifting and smoking weed.........
 
Zerax said:
It's certainly harder to get on the property ladder now than 25 years ago... but nowhere near as hard as the media like to make it out to be.

There was a thing on the radio about it a few months back... youngsters calling in to say how they had done it... it was amusing because the show obviously wanted to make the point about how difficult it was... but many callers said they'd just had to save up really hard and work long hours to do it. That's exactly how it was when I first bought... having 2 jobs, not going out, not going on holidays etc. etc...
Click to expand...
It can be done when still at home with parents. But once you have a mrs and a kid it’s 10 times harder
 
Gary Moore said:
It can be done when still at home with parents. But once you have a mrs and a kid it’s 10 times harder
Click to expand...
Its a lot easier to be honest as you'd rather be at work then dealing with a couple of screaming kids and an un hinged missus, "anyone for OT", hand straight up.........
 
SWD said:
Its a lot easier to be honest as you'd rather be at work then dealing with a couple of screaming kids and an un hinged missus, "anyone for OT", hand straight up.........
Click to expand...
My mrs wouldn’t have that. They always say you ain’t a sparky until you have had a divorce
 
Andy78 said:
I'm off to view a house in half an hour. It is up for offers over £160k. It last sold in 1998 for £27k :D

The larger Victorian houses in the area have seen a rise in the same time frame from about £80k to £250-300k

Bananas.
Click to expand...
I bought my first house for £29k back in 1995. I spent £15k doing it up plus the usual maintenance costs until I sold it in 2004 for £180k. Ive noticed its now up for sale advertised at £369k!

Back in the late 90's I tried desperately to convince my wife that we should invest money in property. I had the means and skills to do them up and we had no children so no other commitments. She already hated the fact that I was self-employed always wanted me to get a "proper" job. We ended up splitting up over our differences and I ended up broke in the process.

Hindsight eh? Now I've got the financial means to invest, I haven't got the time and property is far too expensive with profit margins to be gained smaller than ever.
 
Intoelectrics said:
I bought my first house for £29k back in 1995. I spent £15k doing it up plus the usual maintenance costs until I sold it in 2004 for £180k. Ive noticed its now up for sale advertised at £369k!

Back in the late 90's I tried desperately to convince my wife that we should invest money in property. I had the means and skills to do them up and we had no children so no other commitments. She already hated the fact that I was self-employed always wanted me to get a "proper" job. We ended up splitting up over our differences and I ended up broke in the process.

Hindsight eh? Now I've got the financial means to invest, I haven't got the time and property is far too expensive with profit margins to be gained smaller than ever.
Click to expand...
Big mistake, if you believe in something then follow it thorough and don't rely on others, you had doubts that was your mistake.
 
SWD said:
Big mistake, if you believe in something then follow it thorough and don't rely on others, you had doubts that was your mistake.
Click to expand...
Hindsight is a great thing, but it wasn't that simple at the time. We were co-owners of the property and married. I needed to borrow against the house, I was prepared to take the risk, she wasn't and very adamant. It also didn't help that her family were dead against the idea also.
My mistake was to try and save the relationship by giving in to her concerns and ideals, a mistake I paid the price for in the long run.
I certainly don't let anyone get in the way of what I want out of my life nowadays.
 
one of the few good things maggie thatcher did was the right to buy scheme. but she even messed that up cos she didn't replace the houses sold with new social/council houses. thats one of the reasons there isn't enough housing stock in the country today.
 
remedial said:
one of the few good things maggie thatcher did was the right to buy scheme. but she even messed that up cos she didn't replace the houses sold with new social/council houses. thats one of the reasons there isn't enough housing stock in the country today.
Click to expand...

She didn’t do that to help anybody, she did that to prevent people being able to strike for better wages and conditions.......
 
Baddegg said:
She didn’t do that to help anybody, she did that to prevent people being able to strike for better wages and conditions.......
Click to expand...
Nonsense !! She did that for two reasons; 1) Owning your own home is fundamentally a good thing 2) For many people they'd been paying rent for so long they could have bought the place ! Just look at a road with a mix of tenanted and owner occupied properties... it's clear who's who.
 
Zerax said:
Nonsense !! She did that for two reasons; 1) Owning your own home is fundamentally a good thing 2) For many people they'd been paying rent for so long they could have bought the place ! Just look at a road with a mix of tenanted and owner occupied properties... it's clear who's who.
Click to expand...
Of course it’s a good thing....they get to tax you again when you go into care or try to pass it on.....
 
Zerax said:
Nonsense !! She did that for two reasons; 1) Owning your own home is fundamentally a good thing 2) For many people they'd been paying rent for so long they could have bought the place ! Just look at a road with a mix of tenanted and owner occupied properties... it's clear who's who.
Click to expand...

It’s also the reason we have an entire generation condemned to renting from private landlords......
 
remedial said:
one of the few good things maggie thatcher did was the right to buy scheme. but she even messed that up cos she didn't replace the houses sold with new social/council houses. thats one of the reasons there isn't enough housing stock in the country today.
Click to expand...
Housing Association/Council housing needs a radical shake up !! It's a totally unfair system that's completely out of date. By all means, councils can own houses and let them out... but they should be at market rates ! Not for peanuts rent ! If you're lucky enough to qualify for Housing Benefit, then this should be increased to cover the full market rent. This would stop all those council tenants who sub-let at the market rate (like most of the Grenfell flats)... and those that have substantial incomes, who are well able to afford proper rent (the obvious example here is the late firebrand union leader Bob Crow, who I think was paid about £120k pa and lived in a council house... he thought that was totally acceptable !)
 
Zerax said:
Housing Association/Council housing needs a radical shake up !! It's a totally unfair system that's completely out of date. By all means, councils can own houses and let them out... but they should be at market rates ! Not for peanuts rent ! If you're lucky enough to qualify for Housing Benefit, then this should be increased to cover the full market rent. This would stop all those council tenants who sub-let at the market rate (like most of the Grenfell flats)... and those that have substantial incomes, who are well able to afford proper rent (the obvious example here is the late firebrand union leader Bob Crow, who I think was paid about £120k pa and lived in a council house... he thought that was totally acceptable !)
Click to expand...

Can’t argue with that zerax..
 
Baddegg said:
It’s also the reason we have an entire generation condemned to renting from private landlords......
Click to expand...
Renting from private landlords is the norm in many European countries... Germany is about 61% renters, France is about 50% etc... So it's not all bad, and suits many people. If the younger generation want to own a home, it's very possible, but you have to save up and economise... two things that they find difficult. It's always been tough to buy your own home, but slightly harder these days and very fashionable to winge and moan about how unfair it is !
 
The Tax Poem

Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table at which he's fed.

Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes are the rule.

Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat. Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he tries to think.

Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries tax his tears.

Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways to tax his ---.

Tax all he has, Then let him know, That you won't be done till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers, Then tax him some more, Tax him till he's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in which he's laid.

Put these words Upon his tomb, 'Taxes drove me to my doom...'

When he's gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply the inheritance tax.
 
Zerax said:
Renting from private landlords is the norm in many European countries... Germany is about 61% renters, France is about 50% etc... So it's not all bad, and suits many people. If the younger generation want to own a home, it's very possible, but you have to save up and economise... two things that they find difficult. It's always been tough to buy your own home, but slightly harder these days and very fashionable to winge and moan about how unfair it is !
Click to expand...
I have one issue with your comment. People who are stuck renting can’t be expected to pay rent, living expenses and save a deposit to buy. Until you have rented and tryed it like me you won’t understand. It is impossible. Everyone I know who has bought a house has inherited money or parents have helped them. I only know one person who saved all the money themselves. It is something that needs to be taught to younger generations. The need to save money needs to be taught in school and drummed into youngsters early on. I have had cancer and had 1 year off and spent all my savings to live on, I now have a recently diagnosed autistic son and only me working. So now my partner can’t work because she needs to sort out my son. And that’s the next problem. She could be called to the school at any moment. And then try finding a part time job between the hours of 10 and 3.
 
Zerax said:
Renting from private landlords is the norm in many European countries... Germany is about 61% renters, France is about 50% etc... So it's not all bad, and suits many people. If the younger generation want to own a home, it's very possible, but you have to save up and economise... two things that they find difficult. It's always been tough to buy your own home, but slightly harder these days and very fashionable to winge and moan about how unfair it is !
Click to expand...
I have one issue with your comment. People who are stuck renting can’t be expected to pay rent, living expenses and save a deposit to buy. Until you have rented and tryed it like me you won’t understand. It is impossible. Everyone I know who has bought a house has inherited money or parents have helped them. I only know one person who saved all the money themselves. It is something that needs to be taught to younger generations. The need to save money needs to be taught in school and drummed into youngsters early on. I have had cancer and had 1 year off and spent all my savings to live on, I now have a recently diagnosed autistic son and only me working. So now my partner can’t work because she needs to sort out my son. And that’s the next problem. She could be called to the school at any moment. And then try finding a part time job between the hours of 10 and 3. It is hard. Sometimes the here and now needs to be put first, before what happens when we retire.
 
Gary Moore said:
I have one issue with your comment. People who are stuck renting can’t be expected to pay rent, living expenses and save a deposit to buy. Until you have rented and tryed it like me you won’t understand. It is impossible. Everyone I know who has bought a house has inherited money or parents have helped them. I only know one person who saved all the money themselves. It is something that needs to be taught to younger generations. The need to save money needs to be taught in school and drummed into youngsters early on. I have had cancer and had 1 year off and spent all my savings to live on, I now have a recently diagnosed autistic son and only me working. So now my partner can’t work because she needs to sort out my son. And that’s the next problem. She could be called to the school at any moment. And then try finding a part time job between the hours of 10 and 3. It is hard. Sometimes the here and now needs to be put first, before what happens when we retire.
Click to expand...
Well let me just say it’s not impossible, but I tryed it and ended up so stressed and overworked I got cancer. And if I have to go through that again just to buy a house then It ain’t worth it. I’ve seen so many renters who feel like failures because they can’t buy. It’s actually upsetting to me. They feel like they have failed. But it’s the government who has failed them.
 
cliffed said:
On the books,maybe should go self employed again,most are on £25 + a hour
Click to expand...
AJshep said:
The Tax Poem

Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table at which he's fed.

Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes are the rule.

Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat. Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he tries to think.

Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries tax his tears.

Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways to tax his ---.

Tax all he has, Then let him know, That you won't be done till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers, Then tax him some more, Tax him till he's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in which he's laid.

Put these words Upon his tomb, 'Taxes drove me to my doom...'

When he's gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply the inheritance tax.
Click to expand...
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

Taxman!
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

Don't ask me what I want it for (Aahh Mr. Wilson)
If you don't want to pay some more (Aahh Mr. Heath)
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

And you're working for no one but me
Taxman!

Beatles
 
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