F
finchy
I wonder how much the person got paid who came up with the name "Green Deal" does sound good. Have you got the Green Deal.... Although I dont think people be bragging about the green deal as they were with the 43.3p FIT.
Z
zeljuga
10 Years max for modern condensing boiler, Providing anual serrvice done regularily.Hipotetical saving according to green deal:10 x 240 ~ £2400: and ready for new "green deal" boiler with or without scheme. More like sales pitch on behalf of big banks.
Only way I can se it work it`s if significant proportion of uneployed are angaged in installations for free without any pay.
Only way I can se it work it`s if significant proportion of uneployed are angaged in installations for free without any pay.
Come 5-10 years will the Green Deal be the next endowment/PPI scandal with people seeking compensation?
Are you are GD assessor yourself personally? How much did they training cost you?
S
sedgy34
My co director did the course thank god apparently there loads of paperwork around 170 hours
I booked his course through senate with Ecoskies at £1500
I booked his course through senate with Ecoskies at £1500
S
SRE
B
Berneray
The Green Deal miss-selling over the next few years will make solar pv and door step utilities seem kosher......
Its absolutely set up for miss-selling. In a massive way.
Because it lends itself to door canvassing and telesales.....It gives these types of lead generation a whole new script to use...backed by Governmental marketing campaigns...
And everything that has ever started with a knock on your door or a cold telephone........has been miss-sold. Think Roof Coatings, Utilities, PV Solar, Roofline, Driveways, Garage Conversions.... ect ect ect...
The spin the sales people will then be able to put on this will be like manna from heaven for them.....because it will seems to come with full government approval and support.
All a company needs is Green Deal somewhere in its title or marketing bumff, access to inhouse finance, a trained sales force fed by door knockers and telecanvassers...
And with Green Deal Interest at 7%....then in house finance at say 9% is not that much worse an option....PV Solar will be sold with Green Deal approval...but using in hi
Why are so many window companies adding Green Deal to their branding.....Simple......Its a heaven sent opportunity of them to sell windows to people who otherwise could not afford them. They will sell them the concept of Green Deal....
Its absolutely set up for miss-selling. In a massive way.
Because it lends itself to door canvassing and telesales.....It gives these types of lead generation a whole new script to use...backed by Governmental marketing campaigns...
And everything that has ever started with a knock on your door or a cold telephone........has been miss-sold. Think Roof Coatings, Utilities, PV Solar, Roofline, Driveways, Garage Conversions.... ect ect ect...
The spin the sales people will then be able to put on this will be like manna from heaven for them.....because it will seems to come with full government approval and support.
All a company needs is Green Deal somewhere in its title or marketing bumff, access to inhouse finance, a trained sales force fed by door knockers and telecanvassers...
And with Green Deal Interest at 7%....then in house finance at say 9% is not that much worse an option....PV Solar will be sold with Green Deal approval...but using in hi
Why are so many window companies adding Green Deal to their branding.....Simple......Its a heaven sent opportunity of them to sell windows to people who otherwise could not afford them. They will sell them the concept of Green Deal....
E
Earthstore
Although I personally do not agree with the GD, I would just like to post that I admire you for all your hard work and determination with this.
I read the many posts you made on the build up to this, and I do hope you succeed,
and that the powers to be do not cock it all up again.
I read the many posts you made on the build up to this, and I do hope you succeed,
and that the powers to be do not cock it all up again.
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S
SRE
S
sedgy34
Does that mean you can get in contact with him?
S
sedgy34
And where you at????
S
SRE
Me too but I always come back with the same answer, once burnt twice shy. I haven't got that sort of cash to spare and remember what happened to the price of pv training. I reckon it'll take at least 12 months to see whether there's going to be a market and if you can offer alternative finance for pv why would you go down the GD route unless you want to incorporate all the solid wall insulation stuff and go down the Eco route - we don't so GD isn't of any interest to us yet.
T
TedM
I can't see how anyone who just becomes a GD Installer will make much money. The money is all controlled by the GD Provider and I think they will be trying to maximise their own profits by screwing down the charges of the Installers. GD Assessors are just going to cut one another's throats like DEAs.
If you can be a one-stop shop that covers all bases then you have a chance. Anyone going for a GD loan over £10K has to get separate quotes for the work from three GD Providers. Interesting to note that British Gas were very much against this part of the GD.
If you can be a one-stop shop that covers all bases then you have a chance. Anyone going for a GD loan over £10K has to get separate quotes for the work from three GD Providers. Interesting to note that British Gas were very much against this part of the GD.
The most cost effective route (from a customer) would be for them to get a GD Assessor to work out what work could be done which meets the golden rule. Arrange financing independently at a much better rate (e.g. extending mortgage), and then get GD Installers to do the work.
Or is there something in the GD presenting this route?
Or is there something in the GD presenting this route?
S
sedgy34
Yoi wouldn't be in a green deal plan that way
M
moggy1968
who needs green deal? If, as above, the stuff meets the golden rule and you can pay for it through other means then you don't need approved installers. You just put in your own insulation, get a boiler fitted or whatever, the fuel savings will still be the same.
Get a loan at 5% or so and do it your self and fxxx green deal!
Just use an advisor to point you in the direction of the measures that save you the most relative to cost!
Whole thing seems a waste of time to me TBH and the cons that are going to be out there make me shudder, as an ethical business I want to belong to an ethically run industry, and I can't see that applying to GD. I know there are ethical businesses on here going for GD but I think your all going to be tarred with the same brush unfortunately. The potential for rip offs, cons and misselling is huge.
Get a loan at 5% or so and do it your self and fxxx green deal!
Just use an advisor to point you in the direction of the measures that save you the most relative to cost!
Whole thing seems a waste of time to me TBH and the cons that are going to be out there make me shudder, as an ethical business I want to belong to an ethically run industry, and I can't see that applying to GD. I know there are ethical businesses on here going for GD but I think your all going to be tarred with the same brush unfortunately. The potential for rip offs, cons and misselling is huge.
M
moggy1968
The last EPC I had done was very comprehensive about that sort of stuff, although the pricing he was using to base his returns on were way off which made me question the potential savings as well.
B
Berneray
We went along to a Providers Seminar for would be installers........
They promised me endless amounts of work....but I would have to it. Buy the materials, pay the labour....then submit my invoice for the work.
So essentially I would be a sub-contractor paying for the materials myself up front.
And if that were not bad enough......The Green Deal funds will not be released until ALL the work in the plan is complete. So if I've done the boiler...and someone else has been given the external wall insulation I will not get paid until he's done his bit..and vice versa...
We left early!
They promised me endless amounts of work....but I would have to it. Buy the materials, pay the labour....then submit my invoice for the work.
So essentially I would be a sub-contractor paying for the materials myself up front.
And if that were not bad enough......The Green Deal funds will not be released until ALL the work in the plan is complete. So if I've done the boiler...and someone else has been given the external wall insulation I will not get paid until he's done his bit..and vice versa...
We left early!
M
moggy1968
well dodgy, looking at how some of the firms engaged in this kind of activity have behaved in the past.
I'm not deperate enough for work to risk bankrupting myself getting into large amounts of debt on materials for rip of companies.
I'm not deperate enough for work to risk bankrupting myself getting into large amounts of debt on materials for rip of companies.
B
Berneray
I know. There were a few of us chatting during coffee break about just how much working capital to be an installer...You might have say five six weeks works waiting to be paid....and you know how big companies manage their cash flow to the detriment of the sub contractors...if not at first then they will eventually...
It will all start off fine...then as they say ...Nothing is a problem....till its a problems...
It will all start off fine...then as they say ...Nothing is a problem....till its a problems...
S
SRE
We've been told 90 days minimum could be 180 - kinda limits the extent of the work you can do. We have a local firm with £120 million turnover who have walked away from it because the cashflow is too great a risk. I'm at another Green Deal meeting tomorrow - I'm really wondering why I keep going. None of the group can work out how we can make decent additional money without putting existing business at risk, and we're the optimistic ones!
Let me get this straight...
As a consumer, unless you have a really abysmal credit rating (in which case you probably shouldn't be considering any load, let alone a GD one), the GD doesn't make economic sense as you can get a loan/mortgage extension which would have a much better rather than GD, lower early exit penalties than GD and not cause problems if you decide to sell your house.
And as a supplier/business the GD doesn't make economic sense either.
As a consumer, unless you have a really abysmal credit rating (in which case you probably shouldn't be considering any load, let alone a GD one), the GD doesn't make economic sense as you can get a loan/mortgage extension which would have a much better rather than GD, lower early exit penalties than GD and not cause problems if you decide to sell your house.
And as a supplier/business the GD doesn't make economic sense either.
E
Earthstore
Maybe it's a ploy by the energy companies to make all the PV companies bankrupt.....
We're probably going to go for it - hesitantly.
T
TedM
MCS published MCS023 last Monday. This covers the additional requirements that GD Installers need to meet.
http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/images/MCS 023 - Issue 1.0 - 2013.01.28.pdf
http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/images/MCS 023 - Issue 1.0 - 2013.01.28.pdf
Ref MCS023. Obviously written by someone who has never installed anything in their life. They probably have procedures in their office on how to sharpen pencils, who to ask before they sharpen them, how sharp they should be, what risk assessments have to be carried out before sharpening and before use of the pencil, that full protective clothing is worn by those using the pencil sharpener, and by those in close proximity, what competencies are required against national occupational standards to allow the operative to sharpen the pencil, provision that pencil sharpening should not impinge on the working time directive, that no bats or other wildlife will be disturbed by sharpening the pencil, that there is full documentation to record sharpening the pencil, that full environment records and audit are kept on the disposal of pencil sharpenings.............is it any wonder nothing actually gets done.
G
Greenday
How about this scenario
We carry out a GDAR for nothing and quote for the installation at better rates than are offered by the GDP. We then provide finance at better rates than the GDP or the client gets finance on their mortgage. We carry out the work with no further surveys or inspections (which all add to cost). Client is delighted with work and the streamlined operation reccomends us to others. Client wants to move 5 years later? No problem--no finance tied to the electricity account. Also I believe the Golden Rule will work better this way because of the reduced cost's.
As installers and assessors this removes the financial risk of dealing with some very newly formed GDAO and GDP. We control the job and we collect the money
Green Deal on the other hand with all its layers of complication is just expensive and takes away clients choice
We carry out a GDAR for nothing and quote for the installation at better rates than are offered by the GDP. We then provide finance at better rates than the GDP or the client gets finance on their mortgage. We carry out the work with no further surveys or inspections (which all add to cost). Client is delighted with work and the streamlined operation reccomends us to others. Client wants to move 5 years later? No problem--no finance tied to the electricity account. Also I believe the Golden Rule will work better this way because of the reduced cost's.
As installers and assessors this removes the financial risk of dealing with some very newly formed GDAO and GDP. We control the job and we collect the money
Green Deal on the other hand with all its layers of complication is just expensive and takes away clients choice
The sheer fact that many installers would like to create a "Green Deal Type product" that works for customers, without the complexities and hidden nasties, says more about the heart and soul of the small independents in preference to the Government who create a product designed to look like a sheep, that ends up being a wolf!!
Look, its started already. This e-mail came in this afternoon. There must be money in it for them. Any for the installer, and who is paying? The customer I would guess. Come on suckers, throw your money down the toilet and press the flush, you might as well.
"Hello,
I hope you are well, are you interested in the new Government Green Deal which launched this week on the 28th January? We can help you become an accredited Green Deal installer plus provide you with business in your area. GDP Network will shortly be announced as an approved Green Deal Finance Provider and we are growing our ‘Elite Green Deal Network’ made up of quality local companies across the UK to provide the installs. To register your interest to become an Elite member click: http://www.elitegreendealnetwork.co.uk/elite-member-application
You will soon find your customers will start to ask about the Green Deal and how they can get the finance. If you are not an approved installer or have access to a Green Deal Advisor you will lose business.
As an installer you may already spend 1-2 hours with a customer to carry out a survey and provide education on what you offer. A Green Deal advisor carries out a similar role, this starts the process off to help your customers pay for the work to be completed, gain an extra source of income for your company and generate your own leads.
The Elite Network will guarantee you fit any works identified in the Green Deal report you produced, plus work will be shared reciprocally throughout the Network. We will be heavily involved in domestic, commercial, with letting Agents, councils and social housing, creating more opportunities for you in your area.
We will be paying Advisors up to £300 per domestic Green Deal report lodged with us as a Provider and up to £1000 for properties identified as ECO (Energy Company Obligation) For more information please visit www.greendeal-training.net
If you think about every customer you have dealt with in the past that could not afford what you offered or spent the money else where, you would be able to open up these opportunities now with the Green Deal and with the Elite Network.
If you have any questions or would like to discuss these opportunities further please do not hesitate to contact me on 01925 393810.
I hope to speak with you soon.
Kind regards
Kara McCabe
Sales Director
DD: 01925 393 812 "
"Hello,
I hope you are well, are you interested in the new Government Green Deal which launched this week on the 28th January? We can help you become an accredited Green Deal installer plus provide you with business in your area. GDP Network will shortly be announced as an approved Green Deal Finance Provider and we are growing our ‘Elite Green Deal Network’ made up of quality local companies across the UK to provide the installs. To register your interest to become an Elite member click: http://www.elitegreendealnetwork.co.uk/elite-member-application
You will soon find your customers will start to ask about the Green Deal and how they can get the finance. If you are not an approved installer or have access to a Green Deal Advisor you will lose business.
As an installer you may already spend 1-2 hours with a customer to carry out a survey and provide education on what you offer. A Green Deal advisor carries out a similar role, this starts the process off to help your customers pay for the work to be completed, gain an extra source of income for your company and generate your own leads.
The Elite Network will guarantee you fit any works identified in the Green Deal report you produced, plus work will be shared reciprocally throughout the Network. We will be heavily involved in domestic, commercial, with letting Agents, councils and social housing, creating more opportunities for you in your area.
We will be paying Advisors up to £300 per domestic Green Deal report lodged with us as a Provider and up to £1000 for properties identified as ECO (Energy Company Obligation) For more information please visit www.greendeal-training.net
If you think about every customer you have dealt with in the past that could not afford what you offered or spent the money else where, you would be able to open up these opportunities now with the Green Deal and with the Elite Network.
If you have any questions or would like to discuss these opportunities further please do not hesitate to contact me on 01925 393810.
I hope to speak with you soon.
Kind regards
Kara McCabe
Sales Director
DD: 01925 393 812 "
There is a far easier way to "Open up opportunities" without exposing your customers to prescription laxatives, the "Green Deal" or the Elite Network:
It is called "Door step hyponosis".
For a one off investment of £1500, a straight forward 2 day hypnosis training course will train you in advanced hypnosis techniques, to overcome the most constipated of consumers.
Buy yourselves a pocket watch, chain, black leather briefcase, smart suit, stick some semi official id around your neck, make sure your teeth / shoes have an iridescent shine.
Remember: No more filling out bureaucratic Green Deal assesments or "Golden Rule" form lying. Start ringing door bells in wealthy neighbourhoods.
Describe your selling proposition in less than 3 minutes.
Swing your pocket watch, in rhythmic syncronicity with your trance inducing eyes and repeat as many "Green Deal type" power trigger words as you can.
Induce customers into a DEEP, DEEP, TRANCE.
Input as many suggestive thoughts, emphasising the dire need to start energy saving work to save £'s.
Ensure contracts are signed / dated fortnight previously, before returning within 24 hours to commence work.
No more sleepless nights due to excessive bureacratic form filling and hoop jumping.
No more lost sales leads.
Call: DECC Hypnosis Associates to sign up for "the opportunity of a lifetime".
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