Bonding to gas and 544.1.2

[The Ghost]

Called today as client wanted boiler serviced/fixed. Gas safe man looked at meter boxed outside and said "No bonding! No fix!" Called me to assess. So...Clearly bonding x 2 are leaving the CU. Correct size. Test to water and Gas outside and readings below/within 0.05 ohms continuity. Suggesting there was indeed bonding connected as a previous electrician had confirmed the same. My consideration is looking at the above reg it says ...or at the point of entry to the building... Now how do you read that? Does it mean
A: the external point of entry
B: the internal point of entry
I have always assumed it is a matter of where it enters the building inside. Therefore, as in this case the bonding is probably connected under the floorboards inside the front living room as readings do indicate, and evidence of bonding cables leaving CU. What is your view?
Anyway it is clear that we must provide bonding to the outside gas meter so that work can go ahead and satisfy the gas man. Seems a bit silly to me but what else can you do.

 

[rolyberkin]

Regarding points 1,2 and 3. (Which you have separated and quoted simultaneously so I will answer all 3 with a single reply .
1.
I never said it was an R2 test did i?
R2 was mentioned as it is going to be more practical and convenient for the verification of the main bond in the future,and when installing equipment you should do so with due consideration for the cost,maintenance and convenience of the client. Therefore bond it inside and yes it definitely does make a difference if it's in or out. Installation work is primarily for safety and convenience and you should bear this in mind at all times.

Really?

 

[KentSparky]

What if the gas pipe is inaccessible for most part inside the building but readily accessible at point of entry outside but within the gas meter enclosure? I have come across this situation many times. For me the obvious and most convenient answer, in these situations, is to bond at external point of entry.

You would just use your common sense as you would in any other scenario.
The instances where it is easier to bond outside are the exception to the rule

 

[KentSparky]

Really?

Yes really
Some of us actually type what we mean

 

[Midwest]

With the vast majority of new builds with meter boxes or enclosures (circa 1970's) installed on the outside, the only practicable way is in the box itself. Is that inside or outside?

 

[KentSparky]

Really?

If you find it hard to accept that it's easier,cheaper and more convenient to bond inside then you haven't ho

With the vast majority of new builds with meter boxes or enclosures (circa 1970's) installed on the outside, the only practicable way is in the box itself. Is that inside or outside?

The gas pipe that is outside in the meter box has got to enter the property at some point so the most practical position to bond the pipe would be on the inside of the property 'at the point of entry'. How the hell is drilling a hole and going outside to install the clamp 'the only practicable way'??? How is a job that takes longer preferable to a quicker method? (Unless you are on dayrate)

 

[Midwest]

The gas pipe that is outside in the meter box has got to enter the property at some point so the most practical position to bond the pipe would be on the inside of the property 'at the point of entry'. How the hell is drilling a hole and going outside to install the clamp 'the only practicable way'??? How is a job that takes longer preferable to a quicker method? (Unless you are on dayrate)

Like a lot of properties in such situ's the gas pipe is not always accessible on t'other side of the wall where the meter is mounted. Can't really see how either way would take any longer or would be quicker.

 

[Midwest]

In any case, these two chaps agree with me;

 

[KentSparky]

Like a lot of properties in such situ's the gas pipe is not always accessible on t'other side of the wall where the meter is mounted. Can't really see how either way would take any longer or would be quicker.

Inside is nearer to the consumer unit and you can't see how it makes any difference to use less cable instead of using more cable? Seriously???

 

[buzzlightyear]

most of the gas mains are in plastic to the new property and most bonding cable are feed out side to them .

 

[Midwest]

Seriously???

Why not connect the bond in the meter box, its where most people will look to find it in the future.

 

[buzzlightyear]

these two chaps agree with me

are the chaps kinder ins ,Westy

 

[Nigel]

With the vast majority of new builds with meter boxes or enclosures (circa 1970's) installed on the outside, the only practicable way is in the box itself. Is that inside or outside?

Personally I think it is outside. Not really sure how anybody could say any different.

 

[Midwest]

are the chaps kinder ins ,Westy

You have me disadvantage ag'in Buzz

 

[Midwest]

Personally I think it is outside. Not really sure how anybody could say any different.

Doooh. Why's everyone so serious today.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Personally I think it is outside

in the Corner left had side below the meter .

 

[buzzlightyear]

Doooh. Why's everyone so serious today.

not me WESTY ,is CRUNCHY Friday.

 

[Midwest]

in the Corner left had side below the meter .

Still can't see nutting!

 

[johnduffell]

use less cable

gas mains are in plastic

can't see nutting!

Use no cable on a plastic non extraneous main and you won't see anything on the bill! Winner

 

[Ian1981]

Gas meters are like all electric meters ,mounted in an external meter box on new builds (that I work on)
If you didn’t connect it to the pipe in the box the only other practical place is the boiler as the pipework entering the dwelling is buried in the wall unless the meter box is on the outside garage wall and is visible in the garage. Boilers are usually if not in a utility then in the kitchen.
Nobody wants to see a green and yellow wire underneath the boiler onto the Pipework as it will look hideous.
Therfore it is bonded at the meter which is perfectly acceptable

 

[rolyberkin]

Doooh. Why's everyone so serious today.

Serious time over, it's beer o'clock!

 

[buzzlightyear]

it's beer o'clock

time to crack open the pringles

 

[Midwest]

I've got a rather cheeky chardonnay and some hula hoops.

 

[Pete999]

Serious time over, it's beer o'clock!

14:30 Cotes Du Rhone Time 5 notes in Tesco, better than any pain killer, should be on prescription from the GP (I get free prescriptions by the way)

 

[Pete999]

Serious time over, it's beer o'clock!

14:30 Cotes Du Rhone Time 5 notes in Tesco, better than any pain killer, should be on prescription from the GP (I get free prescriptions by the way)

 

[Midwest]

Was that the time they bottled it Pete, or the time her indoors purchased your elixir

 

[Rpa07]

Is that the Midwest electrical services uniform fashioned by the underlings? Any chance of a photo with @Midwest in his skinny jeans and blue T?

In any case, these two chaps agree with me;

 

[NDG Elecs]

The requirement is to bond extraneous conductive-parts.
Plastic is non-conductive, so doesn’t require bonding.
Metallic pipework inside the building is not extraneous, so also doesn’t require bonding.
When you look up the definition of extraneous conductive-part, it says something about not being a part of the electrical installation which may introduce a potential (might be introduce a difference in potential).
Determination of whether the pipework introduces a potential (or a difference in potential) would indicate whether it requires bonding.

I’m pretty certain this has been covered a number of times.

Use an IR tester to determine whether there is any continuity between the installation earth and the pipework and use a low ohm meter to determine whether any continuity found is reliable.

Below 0.05 ohms is considered reliably connected and doesn’t require bonding.

Anything between 0.05 ohms and 23 kohms would be considered as being in contact with earth, though there are different opinions regarding the higher end as to whether it would require bonding.

22k ohms, 1667 ohms or 667 ohms, all dependant on the resistance of an average human body (1 kohm) and the 50v considered as being safe.

Hi Spin, I realise all what you have said and agree.
Maybe I should have said if the actual gas installation is ALL metallic in nature with just the extraneously fed part being plastic. With reference to the above I just seem to recall that in that instance, and specific to gas only, that it should still be bonded. The logic behind it is, I presume, that gas appliances are more likely to have parallel paths through appliances - hobs, fires etc.
Maybe I misread a reg ages ago, and TBH I have only happened across a plastic gas feed on a few occasions. But they are obviously going to get more and more common as time goes on.
I'm going to have to get my regs book out now (on a Friday night!) to see if I can find what I read.

 

[bigspark17]

Why dont gas regs just get rid of the metal sleeve that surround the yelow plastic pipe inside to the outdide meter then making the gas service non extraneous.
I find it much easier bonding to boiler its easy to find the bond and the pipes are all crossbonded via the pipe connection plate which is handy imo.

 

[Midwest]

^^
If the boilers in the middle of the house, then you wouldn't be complying with the reg?

 

[Pete999]

Was that the time they bottled it Pete, or the time her indoors purchased your elixir

Cus half past two when the sun is over the yard arm, or in my parlance, get the bottle opened Mrs Pete999

 

[rolyberkin]

In the recent NICEIC cinema show there was a part on highlighting how difficult (near on impossible) and time consuming it would be to isolate sections of pipe work (water or gas) to obtain a continuity reading to check whether they were extraneous or not in their own right. Or did I dream that bit as I was a sleep? My point is that it is fairly difficult to see whether one service is extraneous in its own right or is picking up a connection to earth via another service, water from gas or vice versa, I think their point was it would be easier to bond both if this situation arose irrespective of the plastic feed from one service.

 

[Midwest]

Cus half past two when the sun is over the yard arm, or in my parlance, get the bottle opened Mrs Pete999

Here's something else for you to try Pete, whilst the summers still with us;

Why this French red wine is a game-changer - https://www.msn.com/en-gb/foodanddrink/news/why-this-french-red-wine-is-a-game-changer/ar-BBLX4Js?ocid=spartanntp

 

[Pete999]

Here's something else for you to try Pete, whilst the summers still with us;

Why this French red wine is a game-changer - https://www.msn.com/en-gb/foodanddrink/news/why-this-french-red-wine-is-a-game-changer/ar-BBLX4Js?ocid=spartanntp

You see the size of that large bottle? wish Tesco sold them at a fiver a shot

 

[Midwest]

You see the size of that large bottle? wish Tesco sold them at a fiver a shot

Think its a Jeroboam.

They got loads here.

 

[Pete999]

Think its a Jeroboam.View attachment 43796

They got loads here. View attachment 43797

Crikey just imagine taking 6 of those to the checkout in one of those daft boxes the dish out, need a forklift to the those to the car.

 

[Midwest]

They do bigger

 

[Pete999]

They do biggerView attachment 43798

Pack it in for Cripes sake will you