UK Can you add additional sockets to non RCD protected circuits via RCD spurs or sockets?

[Questforknowledge]

Evening all,

If a socket circuit is not RCD protected via an RCD/RCBO and there isn't the option of fitting an additional RCD enclosure or fitting RCBOs, is it permitted to add additional sockets to the circuit via RCD spurs or additional RCD socket outlets? (type A of course)...if the sockets are not installed its likely excessive amounts of extension leads will be used and items would never have any additional protection. In my eyes it is only making the situation safer and if the customer wont upgrade and replace a consumer unit, what is the alternative?

 

[littlespark]

The alternative is walk away from that job.

The rcd doesn’t just protect the user of a faulty appliance being plugged in, but the cables within a circuit from accidental damage.
You haven’t mentioned how it’s wired, but I’ll guess at t&e buried in plaster.

Is the CU so old that you can’t get RCBOs to fit?

 

[mainline]

Evening all,

If a socket circuit is not RCD protected via an RCD/RCBO and there isn't the option of fitting an additional RCD enclosure or fitting RCBOs, is it permitted to add additional sockets to the circuit via RCD spurs or additional RCD socket outlets? (type A of course)...if the sockets are not installed its likely excessive amounts of extension leads will be used and items would never have any additional protection. In my eyes it is only making the situation safer and if the customer wont upgrade and replace a consumer unit, what is the alternative?

If adding a socket circuit, then I can't see why a rcbo couldn't be used at the Cu.

Adding circuits is going to be notifiable.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The short answer is yes.

If the RCD is only needed for additional protection to the socket outlets, and isn't needed to protect cables buried in walls, meet disconnection times, etc etc, then it is ok to use RCD spurs or sockets to protect the outlets.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The short answer is yes.

If the RCD is only needed for additional protection to the socket outlets, and isn't needed to protect cables buried in walls, meet disconnection times, etc etc, then it is ok to use RCD spurs or sockets to protect the outlets.

Agree So long as the new cable isn't chased into a wall I see no real issue with RCD sockets

 

[MJPD29]

As long as the cable itself does not require rcd protection. Its not ideal, but it is possible.

 

[suffolkspark]

What about fitting the spd....

 

[mainline]

Cant see why they don't just fit a rcbo would be cheaper than buying a rcd socket.

What about fitting the spd....

And the testing, of course.
Cant see why they don't just fit a rcbo at CU would be far safer and cheaper than buying a rcd socket.

 

[Questforknowledge]

A bit more context the boards are Bill from memory so probably 1970s RCBOs do not fit within the consumer unit as they didnt exist when the board where made and there isnt space for an RCD enclosure in the surrounding areas (its an old care home fuse board)... The cables supplying the new sockets would be in YT2 trunking. I know its not ideal and a board change is best but the fact is that wont happen and surely an additional RCD protected socket or two is safer than using trailing extension leads used on the exisiting non protected sockets

 

[mainline]

A bit more context the boards are Bill from memory so probably 1970s RCBOs do not fit within the consumer unit as they didnt exist when the board where made and there isnt space for an RCD enclosure in the surrounding areas (its an old care home fuse board)... The cables supplying the new sockets would be in YT2 trunking. I know its not ideal and a board change is best but the fact is that wont happen and surely an additional RCD protected socket or two is safer than using trailing extension leads used on the exisiting non protected sockets

Ahh, makes sense now.

No room for a single rcbo enclosure ??

Yes, I agree better with than without.

 

[DPG]

A bit more context the boards are Bill from memory so probably 1970s RCBOs do not fit within the consumer unit as they didnt exist when the board where made and there isnt space for an RCD enclosure in the surrounding areas (its an old care home fuse board)... The cables supplying the new sockets would be in YT2 trunking. I know its not ideal and a board change is best but the fact is that wont happen and surely an additional RCD protected socket or two is safer than using trailing extension leads used on the exisiting non protected sockets

It's not still a care home is it?

 

[mainline]

It's not still a care home is it?

I wouldn't have thought so as they obviously haven't cared about electrical safety

 

[MJPD29]

I would have thought a care home would have had to have kept up with safety standards

 

[Risteard]

I would have thought a care home would have had to have kept up with safety standards

When I've carried out inspections on them in the past I would have to say that that's not my experience of them. I'd well believe the old Bill rewireable fuse boxes being there.

 

[davesparks]

I would have thought a care home would have had to have kept up with safety standards

You've not worked in many care homes then?

 

[ipf]

You've not worked in many care homes then?

Some were run by some of the tightest owners ever known.....and now they get much less help from the government. I remember talking about an EICR to one 'manager'. She was expecting a quote of less than a fiver a circuit so there ended the conversation.

 

[davesparks]

Some were run by some of the tightest owners ever known.....and now they get much less help from the government. I remember talking about an EICR to one 'manager'. She was expecting a quote of less than a fiver a circuit so there ended the conversation.

One I worked at regularly for many years was run by a fairly large national charity.

It was buried in the middle of the woods and clearly established at a time when 'hide them away where they can't disturb normal people' was the accepted way to treat the disabled and even a few years ago I'd say that still seemed to be the prevailing attitude.

Most of the work I did was patching things up to keep it going 'just until the new financial year'

 

[Questforknowledge]

Yes unfortunately it is a yes you would be surprised. I also understand with ammendment 2 AFDDs should be fitted but we were advised by the NICEIC if it's an an alteration not a new circuit then you can proceed.

 

[mainline]

Yes unfortunately it is a yes you would be surprised. I also understand with ammendment 2 AFDDs should be fitted but we were advised by the NICEIC if it's an an alteration not a new circuit then you can proceed.

Are you doing a Pir/eicr ? or is it a case of can you do the least amount of work for the least amount of money, scenario.

I'm assuming that there is some medical equipment /wired smoke alarms etc ?

Have you a pic of the board ?

 

[MJPD29]

You've not worked in many care homes then?

Zero to be exact

 

[Questforknowledge]

Are you doing a Pir/eicr ? or is it a case of can you do the least amount of work for the least amount of money, scenario.

I'm assuming that there is some medical equipment /wired smoke alarms etc ?

Have you a pic of the board ?

The later....its insane how a lot of these homes are. I've done a lot of eicrs in these types of locations in the past and ntheyre nevwr anywhere near satisfactory