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If you dont get sorted b4 weekend il draft you up a simplified wiring format that you can follow, dont worry about not understanding them yet you pick it up along the way but if its an interest you'd be good to get a beginners guide to control wiring and schematics just understanding the schematics helps you plan your own wiring better as you are constantly looking at examples.
 
If you dont get sorted b4 weekend il draft you up a simplified wiring format that you can follow, dont worry about not understanding them yet you pick it up along the way but if its an interest you'd be good to get a beginners guide to control wiring and schematics just understanding the schematics helps you plan your own wiring better as you are constantly looking at examples.
That would be a great help. I have today gone and got another contactor but still problem is once stop circuit is interrupted the thing won't work again. Shall I have a go at doing another drawing for you ?
 
OK, try this way, have you numbered the panel wires ?
if so simply list each wire you have in the panel. If not have a go at listing all the wires but its easier to explain what to change if they are numbered

So example

wire 1 - from emergency stop to 110V rail
wire 2 emergency stop to push button (start)

ect ect

include the power wiring and all control wiring.

Maybe we can then say " move wire 3 from a to b... etc

sorry for assumptions - no offence meant
 
Have the start stop button pulling in a main contactor then from one of its poles send the supply out to a switch (on/off) which in turn goes to the stat then the switch wire from the stat to the contactor coil for the heater..... this is pretty much what Tony's diagram shows then repeat for 2nd heater.
I assume your problem is your controlling the same contactor with both a start/stop button and stat control and you stat control is acting as a stop command dropping out the retained contactor, this is why you need a independant contactor just for the start/stop command so it remains energised until either Estop or stop is pressed.
 
Have the start stop button pulling in a main contactor then from one of its poles send the supply out to a switch (on/off) which in turn goes to the stat then the switch wire from the stat to the contactor coil for the heater..... this is pretty much what Tony's diagram shows then repeat for 2nd heater.
I assume your problem is your controlling the same contactor with both a start/stop button and stat control and you stat control is acting as a stop command dropping out the retained contactor, this is why you need a independant contactor just for the start/stop command so it remains energised until either Estop or stop is pressed.

Thanks gents for sticking with me on this one. I know it's annoying talking to someone like me who aint got the first clue but I am not going to let this beat me!
Here is my new drawing which hopfully you can see a bit better. This is just one button, the last drawing had all three but they are all identical in how they work.Control Panel for 3ph Heaters photo - EletriciansForums.net
 
Have the start stop button pulling in a main contactor then from one of its poles send the supply out to a switch (on/off) which in turn goes to the stat then the switch wire from the stat to the contactor coil for the heater..... this is pretty much what Tony's diagram shows then repeat for 2nd heater.
I assume your problem is your controlling the same contactor with both a start/stop button and stat control and you stat control is acting as a stop command dropping out the retained contactor, this is why you need a independant contactor just for the start/stop command so it remains energised until either Estop or stop is pressed.

Darkwood, yes this is exactly what I need to do. I have this here which I think will do what you are saying, is this what I need?Control Panel for 3ph Heaters photo2 - EletriciansForums.net
 
i think you have a great idea there. why not try it perhaps it will work.using a thermostat to control another contactor is possible since the thermostat is a sensor.
 
jparker 86....refer back to post #13 kindly donated by Tony as that is spot on. Only thing i'll add is afew more bits to the key offered:-

K1/1 = N/O contact on pump contactor (K1)
Sw1 = Rotary on/off switch for Heater bank 1 contactor (K2)
Sw2 = Rotary on/off switch for Heater bank 2 contactor (K3)
Th1 = Thermostat on Heater bank 1
Th2 = Thermostat on Heater bank 2

Definitely rotary switches on heater bank circuits instead of push buttons.

It may help if you copy/draw out Tony's donation on paper to help you understand the circuit better.
 
jparker 86....refer back to post #13 kindly donated by Tony as that is spot on. Only thing i'll add is afew more bits to the key offered:-

K1/1 = N/O contact on pump contactor (K1)
Sw1 = Rotary on/off switch for Heater bank 1 contactor (K2)
Sw2 = Rotary on/off switch for Heater bank 2 contactor (K3)
Th1 = Thermostat on Heater bank 1
Th2 = Thermostat on Heater bank 2

Definitely rotary switches on heater bank circuits instead of push buttons.

Hello,

I don't know why but the equipment that it is controlling specified the control panel must have a push button. No idea why! :-(
 
What equipment is this panel supplying?

I can understand the pump requireing push button control put cant personaly see how push/button control would work the heater side due to the thermostats.
 
What equipment is this panel supplying?

I can understand the pump requireing push button control put cant personaly see how push/button control would work the heater side due to the thermostats.

It's supplying heat and circulation to a massive water tank. The customer would usually have a 200L tank which would be worked via 1 or 2 single phase heaters. Due to the size of this tank I am having to put a much bigger load on the heaters, hence the 3ph.

One requirement is they are push buttons, I did question this and was told the other systems have push buttons so this must also! Maybe it has to do with their user manual or something, but I originally thought a selector switch would have been a much easier system.
 
May be an idea to grab one of thier user manual's and go from there...really cant get my head around push buttons for heater controls with the thermostats in circuit.....got meself all confused now.
 
May be an idea to grab one of thier user manual's and go from there...really cant get my head around push buttons for heater controls with the thermostats in circuit.....got meself all confused now.

I'll go back to customer and say that using push buttons is not possible! Just a shame becuase the panels are already done with buttons inside them. Hopfully ill be able to use the same holders.
 
Do you need seperate stop/start buttons for each heater ?, or just one stop start button for both heaters ?

Don't give up yet, you had the right idea in your first post, ie. use the stop/start (latching contactor) for the supply or control to the thermostatically controlled heater circuit.

I would use the latching contactor/relay contacts to control the coil for the thermostat part,ie in series with your thermostat to the second (and third) heater contactor.
 
Do you need seperate stop/start buttons for each heater ?, or just one stop start button for both heaters ?

Don't give up yet, you had the right idea in your first post, ie. use the stop/start (latching contactor) for the supply or control to the thermostatically controlled heater circuit.

I would use the latching contactor/relay contacts to control the coil for the thermostat part,ie in series with your thermostat to the second (and third) heater contactor.

This is what I want to do but getting unstuck here. It seems that no matter how I do it, once the thermostat kills my contactor, so does the stop circuit which in turn gives power to my a1 on the main contactor.

I want both heaters to work independently
 
This is what I want to do but getting unstuck here. It seems that no matter how I do it, once the thermostat kills my contactor, so does the stop circuit which in turn gives power to my a1 on the main contactor.

I want both heaters to work independently

Because you are mixing the thermostatic controlled part up with the latching part, try and seperate the controls.

So do you need two sets of stop/starts (4 Buttons) for the two heaters ?
 
Because you are mixing the thermostatic controlled part up with the latching part, try and seperate the controls.

So do you need two sets of stop/starts (4 Buttons) for the two heaters ?

Yeah I do. I got another contactor (shown in a previous post) and I took a live feed from main mcb supplying my control circuit going into 1 and from 2 it went to thermostat back from stat to a1 on my main four pole contactor. Existing cable going to a1 on main contactor I switched to a1 on the new contactor and this is fed from stop circuit. Worked when stat asked for heat but as soon as it removed power to main contactor the stop circuit didn't have any power to feed back to the new contactor, this is where I got stuck :(
 
OK,

You will need four contactors to do what you are trying to do (for the heater part alone).

You will need two self latching contactors (one for each heater), use one of the unused pair of contacts off of each of your start/stop contactors, ie. ones not used in the latch circuit, to feed a switched supply in series with the thermostatic controlled contactor (ie. in series with each thermostat and coil).

This way you can independantly control each heater, and each thermostat can control the second contactor independent from the latch (stop/start) contactor.

It is difficult to put into words, I may see if I can draw it for you.
 

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