Dodgy trade pictures for your amusement! - 1 Million Views!

[Darkwood]

Right ... Just been nudged to set this up by Paul.M and sounds a good idea following recent threads I've done in the Arms..

Rules....No Offensive material... edit if required before posting as this is the public arena.
Anything to do with the trade or in and around it ...H&S pic's welcome.



I've posted this a few times and this is at a mates house following a kitchen refirb several yrs ago. mg_smile:

 

[mainline]

Sorry don’t understand your question. I was just suggesting cutting an access hole into the plasterboard.

It was related to cutting a hole across a joist, a hole saw is difficult to start the cut without some sort of pilot.

 

[123]

Tumble drier, washing machine, dish washer that’ll be ok I’m sure……
Larger cable is feeding a double socket with wm td on and the smaller flex is for the dishwasher…..

As with shower pullcords, it's always the neutral that fails

 

[brianmoooore]

Cut a hole in a piece of plywood, throw away the circular piece you cut out, then hold the plywood against the ceiling, and use the hole as a guide for the hole saw.

It was related to cutting a hole across a joist, a hole saw is difficult to start the cut without some sort of pilot.

Second quote should be first!

 

[mainline]

This is what I usually do too, where lifting boards in the room above isn't possible/feasible. I find the joists with a magnet, measure 120mm to the side and cut the hole centred there. I cut them all so I can see any cables/pipes, then drill the joists using a dewalt 90deg attachment for the drill.

I'm going to buy a 5 or 6" holesaw for it, as while 4" works, it is just a little on the tight side as you need to get your hand in to apply pressure as you drill the joist.

If you replace the correct p-board circle to it's respective hole, in the correct orientation (mark before cutting), they go back in perfectly. Easifill and then sand, no need for reskimming!

In my experience they never fit perfectly you have to peel at least one layer of the backing off the plaster board otherwise it's proud, ideally you want the infill paper thin below the surface makes it a doddle to skim over.

Orientation of the infill shouldn't matter as they should all be the same, not that it would matter with such small gap tolerances that's going to be filled anyway.

I'm of course assuming that you baton across the hole and screw the infill into that ? If so, then either side of the baton has to be screwed through the ceiling into the baton either side of the hole.

Notching the joist from below is far easier and much quicker, with far less damage to the ceiling.

If using 1mm then the notch is hardly anything.

Drilling the joist is the better job, but far more work.

 

[brianmoooore]

Notch the underside of the joists? Sounds a bit " mind your spurs don't damage the furniture" to me. The only place cables should be passing through joists is through a drilled hole on the neutral axis.

 

[mainline]

Notch the underside of the joists? Sounds a bit " mind your spurs don't damage the furniture" to me. The only place cables should be passing through joists is through a drilled hole on the neutral axis.

It's far less likely to get hit with a nail than a cable that's notched above the joist.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

In my experience they never fit perfectly you have to peel at least one layer of the backing off the plaster board otherwise it's proud, ideally you want the infill paper thin below the surface makes it a doddle to skim over.

Orientation of the infill shouldn't matter as they should all be the same, not that it would matter with such small gap tolerances that's going to be filled anyway.

I'm of course assuming that you baton across the hole and screw the infill into that ? If so, then either side of the baton has to be screwed through the ceiling into the baton either side of the hole.

Notching the joist from below is far easier and much quicker, with far less damage to the ceiling.

If using 1mm then the notch is hardly anything.

Drilling the joist is the better job, but far more work.

I have found that by returning the correct disc to the correct hole, and keeping the original orientation, the discs go back perfectly pretty much every time. You wouldn't expect it to make a difference, but it seems to. Give it a go!

Yes, I batten across the hole. , 18mm ply is best IMO, with woodscrews rather than plasterboard screws.

Notching the underside of joists? I dunno @mainline , it's a little bit non compliant dont you think? What do you think Delroy would say if he found out you get up to this sort of thing?

 

[Baddegg]

As a wood butcher I can assure you you don’t want to notch the underside of joists

 

[mainline]

I have found that by returning the correct disc to the correct hole, and keeping the original orientation, the discs go back perfectly pretty much every time. You wouldn't expect it to make a difference, but it seems to. Give it a go!

Yes, I batten across the hole. , 18mm ply is best IMO, with woodscrews rather than plasterboard screws.

Notching the underside of joists? I dunno @mainline , it's a little bit non compliant dont you think? What do you think Delroy would say if he found out you get up to this sort of thing?

In certain situations needs must, I work in very old properties lots are open beam so no void at all and a nightmare to hide cables.

Others are mostly lath plaster, which sometimes doesn't take kindly to vibration.

 

[mainline]

As a wood butcher I can assure you you don’t want to notch the underside of joists

Why ?

 

[littlespark]

Why ?

I’m sure it’s something to do with removing material from a length of wood, from the bottom, decreasing the cross sectional area and introducing a weak spot.

Same idea as drilling too many holes too close together through a joist.

 

[brianmoooore]

Building regs prescribe both the location limits and size limits for both holes and notches.

 

[mainline]

I’m sure it’s something to do with removing material from a length of wood, from the bottom, decreasing the cross sectional area and introducing a weak spot.

Same idea as drilling too many holes too close together through a joist.

Building regs prescribe both the location limits and size limits for both holes and notches.

You're allowed to notch the top or the bottom.

 

[brianmoooore]

You're allowed to notch the top or the bottom.

But only in certain places along the joist's length. Different places for holes.

 

[nicebutdim]

You're allowed to notch the top or the bottom.

Where did you learn that?

 

[brianmoooore]

Where did you learn that?

Building regs.

 

[nicebutdim]

Building regs.

Notching the underside of joists?

Thinking more about this, is it permitted within certain locations provided no notches have been cut in the top?

 

[mainline]

I’m sure it’s something to do with removing material from a length of wood, from the bottom, decreasing the cross sectional area and introducing a weak spot.

Same idea as drilling too many holes too close together through a joist.

Obviously, removing wood from a joist is going to weaken it.

 

[mainline]

Where did you learn that?

As Brian said

 

[mainline]

Notching the underside of joists?

Thinking more about this, is it permitted within certain locations provided no notches have been cut in the top?

How to get it right: Notches & holes in solid timber joists | LABC

When installing pipework or cabling, floor or ceiling joists may need to be notched or drilled. But this could weaken the floor to such an extent that it becomes structurally unsound. To find out if this might be the case, you can find guidance on notches and holes in solid timber joists for use...

www.labc.co.uk

 

[nicebutdim]

Yes, no opposite notches.

Does this apply to the entire joist - ie. if it is notched anywhere along the top, it shouldn't be notched anywhere along the bottom?

Where's @Mike Johnson ? He's a mine of information on building regs.

 

[mainline]

Does this apply to the entire joist - ie. if it is notched anywhere along the top, it shouldn't be notched anywhere along the bottom?

I don't think a notch deep enough to sink a 1mm cable in is going to be much of a concern toward weakening a joist.

 

[mainline]

Does this apply to the entire joist - ie. if it is notched anywhere along the top, it shouldn't be notched anywhere along the bottom?

Where's @Mike Johnson ? He's a mine of information on building regs.

Oh yes i totally agree Mike Mike where are you

 

[westward10]

I think this has been debated enough this thread is about dodgy trade pics start a thread if you want to discuss this further.

 

[partplonker]

Clearly the installer didn't do any testing and mixed up the feed in and out to a shed in this log cabin. Interesting use of self adhesive trunking and for the feed in the house, a strange "tails" (inner conductors from a 10mm sheathed cable), earth and 30mA RCD arrangement instead of just coming out of the board above that already has a 30mA RCD main switch.

 

[mainline]

You can tell Delboy didn't do it, as the trunking would have been neat.

What earthing system has it ?

Love the rcd isolator, makes it much safer, eh !.

 

[partplonker]

You can tell Delboy didn't do it, as the trunking would have been neat.

I was thinking of Delboy when I saw all that wonky trunking. I was thinking "no electrician done that!"

What earthing system has it ?

It's PME, but the property is very rural and supplied by an overhead cable. It probably used to be TT.

Love the rcd isolator, makes it much safer, eh !.

Sure does, in the event of a fault they'll both trip so it's doubly safe!

 

[mainline]

I was thinking of Delboy when I saw all that wonky trunking. I was thinking "no electrician done that!"

It's PME, but the property is very rural and supplied by an overhead cable. It probably used to be TT.

Sure does, in the event of a fault they'll both trip so it's doubly safe!

What size i assume swa 3 core ?

Is the PME exported ?

 

[partplonker]

What size i assume swa 3 core ?

Yeah, 3 core 10mm SWA

Is the PME exported ?

It is. The structure is all wood and there are no extraneous conductive parts (and no gas or water in there either). It's only a short run as the cabin is about 10 feet from the house.

 

[mainline]

Yeah, 3 core 10mm SWA

It is. The structure is all wood and there are no extraneous conductive parts (and no gas or water in there either). It's only a short run as the cabin is about 10 feet from the house.

I can't really understand why they didn't gland into the CU rather than leave the single insulation.

 

[littlespark]

I’m not a fan of mini trunking on wood.
This is awful.

 

[partplonker]

I can't really understand why they didn't gland into the CU rather than leave the single insulation.

Me neither, none of it makes sense. I can only assume that because he used a 20mm knockout and grommet in the bottom of the board that a 10mm with the sheath on wouldn't fit through the hole, so he removed the sheath. Adding another RCD as an isolator when you've just come out of a board off an MCB with RCD protection is baffling, shows a lack of understanding of switchgear and selectivity.

Annoyingly, he hadn't quite left enough on that cable for me to take it into the board directly and for it to reach all the terminals, so I ended up putting a box directly below the CU to join it (and taking the earth through the board instead of it just dangling). Looks a bit neater now.

I should have taken more photos. Bizarrely, in the next room, he clipped that 10mm cable all around the top of the plastered wall just below the ceiling. The one place where trunking would have been an acceptable thing to use and he doesn't, yet he slaps horrible trunking all over the inside of the cabin on wood so the owner now has goo to remove where I've ripped it all out.

(Edit: It's probably not clear from the photo - it's 10mm twin and earth from the board, there's a junction box in the next room where it switches to armoured).

 

[Raptor0014]

Doing a EICR prior to a CU change and was flummoxed as to why I had a break in continuity on a Ring.

Went round the property checked every single socket. Couldn’t see a problem. Asked customer if they’d had any work done and said nothing electrical no.

So ended up going back this week to spend the day trying to work out where the problem was.

Went up in the loft and was tracing the circuit around and notice there was an unusual diversion down to the airing cupboard.

Checked in there and nothing doing apart from the old switched fused spur for the immersion. Which wasn’t on the ring circuit.

Asked customer where the immersion had gone and they said it had been moved to the back of the utility in an unused alcove as they had a new tank fitted ready for me to install a solar diverter (which they had yet to ask me about).

So thought I’d just go and have a look and found this nicely positioned socket behind the tank, and Sod’s Law was the one that had the break in it.

So 6hrs wasted (3 of which was getting at the socket to rectify the issue) But it killed two birds with one stone as I converted it to a fused spur with flex outlet to run the solar iBoost from and restored the ring continuity.

All I can say is thank god I had the Wera Tool Check Plus as even my stubby slim screwdrivers were two big to get at the screws.

iBoost worked great once installed however. So a happy ending.

 

[DPG]

Doing a EICR prior to a CU change and was flummoxed as to why I had a break in continuity on a Ring.

Went round the property checked every single socket. Couldn’t see a problem. Asked customer if they’d had any work done and said nothing electrical no.

So ended up going back this week to spend the day trying to work out where the problem was.

Went up in the loft and was tracing the circuit around and notice there was an unusual diversion down to the airing cupboard.

Checked in there and nothing doing apart from the old switched fused spur for the immersion. Which wasn’t on the ring circuit.

Asked customer where the immersion had gone and they said it had been moved to the back of the utility in an unused alcove as they had a new tank fitted ready for me to install a solar diverter (which they had yet to ask me about).

So thought I’d just go and have a look and found this nicely positioned socket behind the tank, and Sod’s Law was the one that had the break in it.

So 6hrs wasted (3 of which was getting at the socket to rectify the issue) But it killed two birds with one stone as I converted it to a fused spur with flex outlet to run the solar iBoost from and restored the ring continuity.

All I can say is thank god I had the Wera Tool Check Plus as even my stubby slim screwdrivers were two big to get at the screws.

iBoost worked great once installed however. So a happy ending.

View attachment 98800View attachment 98801

You did well getting into that and sorting the connections.

 

[Raptor0014]

You did well getting into that and sorting the connections.

I wouldn’t do it again. It was only because it was going to save me the hassle of chasing in a cable for the solar iBoost supply. Next time I’ll just either break the ring into two radials and disable the socket. Or, if possible, disable the socket and rejoin the ring in a wago box if I can.

 

[Mike Johnson]

At least it was nice and clean in there, or did you prepared the cupboard for the photograph.

 

[Raptor0014]

At least it was nice and clean in there, or did you prepared the cupboard for the photograph.

Ha no, it was in the utility and I’m assuming the customer had cleaned it out before the pipe jockey installed the tank.

 

[nicebutdim]

You did well getting into that and sorting the connections.

Yeah, but how many people did it take to get him back out?

 

[ipf]

Doing a EICR prior to a CU change and was flummoxed as to why I had a break in continuity on a Ring

All I can say is thank god I had the Wera Tool Check Plus as even my stubby slim screwdrivers were two big to get at the screws.

Both of them?

 

[Raptor0014]

Both of them?

I has speak the Queens England since I was a children I’ll have you know.