Downlights in door canopy

[Pretty Mouth]

I have been asked to fit 3 downlights in a flat roofed GRP door canopy, similar to the one in this youtube vid:

Client want cables concealed within the canopy. 1 downlight dead centre, the others an appropriate spacing to either side. Canopy is, at a guess, 3000 X 900 X 200, and has been there 15-20 years.

I expect getting the cable from the switch into the canopy void to be reasonably straightforward (assuming the door lintel isn't in the way) but I'm wondering if running the cables between the lights will be problematic. I expect there will be noggins in the canopy void, and there's bound to be one dead centre where the middle light wants to go.

I am considering removing the one-piece weatherproof covering from the canopy which would give access from above to survey, and to drill holes through the noggins etc. But, not having done this before, obviously I'm worried about the potential for expensive mistakes.

Has anyone else carried out similar work, and what advice can you give?

 

[stevethesparks]

Looking at the lack of depth in that canopy, I wouldn't be surprised if fishing to the outer lights was a real pig. I take it the centre one will be going in regardless so maybe once that hole is cut, you may be able to decide from then.
And yes, you can bet there will be an obstruction dead centre.
Good luck

 

[buzzlightyear]

. I expect there will be noggins in the canopy void, and there's bound to be one dead centre where the middle light wants to go

If you can dismantle the top lid and put your cable through then, you will some idea. If there is a timber center then you can only put in two. Good luck with it.

 

[James]

If that is a flat roof, you could point a radiant heater at the top of it, then look at it from below through a thermal camera if you have one, with no insulation in there the timbers should all show as blue whilst the voids that will heat up quickly will show reds and oranges.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Thanks for the advice all.

@buzzlightyear , if I can get the lid off without destroying it, then the job should be fairly easy. If there is a timber dead centre, I can probably cut it away for the downlight, and fit 2 new timbers, 1 either side to compensate. That's if I can get the lid off.

@James , unfortunately I don't have a thermal camera, but thanks for the idea. The canopy soffit and fascia have been painted, so I should be able to make good minor holes in it with car body work filler. Perhaps a hole or 2 here and there, I could poke the endoscope up and have a look around.

 

[telectrix]

drill a holein the underside, off centre and poke a snake vision camera up.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

drill a holein the underside, off centre and poke a snake vision camera up.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking Tel

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I finished this job yesterday. In case anyone is interested or comes across similar...

Basically, there was no removable lid to the canopy: the canopy was one piece of hollow fibreglass, with an open back and 3 internal vertical supports of fibreglass-clad OSB to give strength and rigidity. It was fixed to the wall by screws through the flashing upstand, and a couple of ornate scroll-y bits supporting from below.

One by one I removed the screws and replaced with longer ones, only partially screwed into the wall. This allowed me to gently pull the canopy clear of the wall by an inch or so, and have a look in the back with the endoscope.

There was indeed a vertical support dead centre. I explained the problem to the client, and offered options of having 2 or 4 downlights instead of the 3 they wanted. Not a chance, they were having one dead centre and were happy to take the risk of any sagging that might occur as a result of cutting into the support. It took a little while to cut enough out to get the downlight in there. You had to go at it with the holesaw, then hack it with a chisel, then repeat over and over. TBH I don't think they will have any problems with this, there wasn't that much removed in the grand scheme.

The rest of the job was easy, the vertical supports didn't quite go all the way back so the cable was easily routed behind them. Once finished, I just replaced the long screws with the originals and tightened them back to the wall, pulling the canopy back in place.

 

[7029 dave]

Neat job, dueling banjos.

 

[stevethesparks]

Good job

 

[DPG]

Nice one!
Lucky the canopy upstand wasn't siliconed to the wall.

 

[FatAlan]

Where is it switched from and how did you run the cable?

 

[brianmoooore]

Nice one!
Lucky the canopy upstand wasn't siliconed to the wall.

Almost certainly should have been, unless there's a foam strip along the back

 

[DPG]

Almost certainly should have been, unless there's a foam strip along the back

Yeah a bit of lazy installation perhaps.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Yeah a bit of lazy installation perhaps.

Lazy indeed, but lucky for me. I was expecting to spend some time cutting/sawing/multitooling silicone from the back of the upstand.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Where is it switched from and how did you run the cable?

It's switched from just inside the front door. There was an existing 2g switch there, one side previously controlled an outdoor light where the solar powered light to the left of the front door is. I reused this switch. The construction is timber frame, so I was able to rod the cable vertically up behind the plasterboard, then straight through the wall into the canopy void. The only damage to decor was one 16mm hole in the plasterboard.

 

[FatAlan]

It's switched from just inside the front door. There was an existing 2g switch there, one side previously controlled an outdoor light where the solar powered light to the left of the front door is. I reused this switch. The construction is timber frame, so I was able to rod the cable vertically up behind the plasterboard, then straight through the wall into the canopy void. The only damage to decor was one 16mm hole in the plasterboard.

If I had been doing that job there wouldn't have been a neutral available at the switch! ?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Ah and if I had been doing that job the house would have been solid stone about 600mm thick with no possible unobtrusive access from inside to outside and exposed stone on the inside that the owner did not want to be drilled, Quinetic switch comes to mind, but still have to get power to the lights. ? My favourite job chasing out the pointing to the external stonework to access the first floor void.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Nice update PM. Sounds like you went above and beyond to get the job done well.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Is nice to see a pride in the job, me I would have crowbarded off the wall. Lol.