Downlights

[StevieTee]

Folks,

Sunday afternoon chilling and having a little thought to myself about the jobs ahead this week. I got thinking, I have a job this week invloving downlights. Simple job really, but thought I would see how everyone else does it.

When I do downlights, it's a 1.5mm T+E to the lighting points, then from each point I install 20A 3 pin push junction box with a 1mm flex comming from the juction box to the downlight itself.

I do it like this because I think it looks good. But curiosity got the better of me, how do you guys install downlights? I get fed up of turning up to jobs and seeing two 1.5mm stuffed straight into the horrble connector blocks that come with the downlights. Never really seen any other methods that I can think of the now.

 

[stevethesparks]

I like to pre wire mine at floor level then attach them using Wago Lite boxes along with their 224 light connectors

 

[NDG Elecs]

I do similar with the wago or line enclosures. Depends on the fittings, as some of the more expensive do have a loop out on them. And yeah, I don't like the technique of stuffing two T&E in to the crappy connectors often attached. Other than that if it's just say four lights I would probably use five terminal Wagos and fan out from there.

Edit: and as Steve says above, can sit down and prewire in comfort with a cuppa!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Click flow connectors. So you can lamp them up etc, carry out testing then plug them in and push them up.

 

[StevieTee]

Started using the Wago's more and more now.

Lee thats my method too.

Was a curiosity question lads. Hate seeing the 2 cables stuffed into those connectors blocks. They are terrible. Sitting down and prewiring first always goes better with a cuppa....when I get offered one. Seem to have hit a stretch of customers that think I am out there to rob them.

 

[Vitesse]

I've used click flow connectors in the past on new installs, as others have said its nice to prewire everything whilst sitting down and having a cuppa.

When I do halogen to GU10 LED conversions, I use what Steve says, the Wago light box and 224 connectors. It so much easier, quicker and less fiddly when up a ladder. Good little boxes and plenty of room for two T&E's in the cable grips.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Folks,

Sunday afternoon chilling and having a little thought to myself about the jobs ahead this week. I got thinking, I have a job this week invloving downlights. Simple job really, but thought I would see how everyone else does it.

When I do downlights, it's a 1.5mm T+E to the lighting points, then from each point I install 20A 3 pin push junction box with a 1mm flex comming from the juction box to the downlight itself.

I do it like this because I think it looks good. But curiosity got the better of me, how do you guys install downlights? I get fed up of turning up to jobs and seeing two 1.5mm stuffed straight into the horrble connector blocks that come with the downlights. Never really seen any other methods that I can think of the now.

I would do it in a very similar fashion to you. The only difference is that I use 1mm as I think 6A is plenty for a lighting circuit (usually) and I use heat resistant flex rather than standard, for that one in a thousand time when the cable ends up resting on the halogen lamp that has been used to replace the LED.

I use wagoboxes with a 3 way lever terminal as it's MF, however I've just started to use the line boxes (the ones that look like grenades) sometimes if they are located in the loft. I'm not sure if they have been tested or approved as MF yet so haven't used them for under floorboards.

I have to admit I have sometimes (when rushed) terminated the last one in T&E as its only one cable entering the enclosure on the downlight. Always feel a bit bad though!!

 

[Andy78]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking 2 twin and earth cables into a downlight that has been designed for this purpose. It's only the poor quality ones where this becomes a possibly unsafe issue as they tend to be designed to take a 0.75mm flex and not much more.

I also use line boxes and have used click flows in the past, only when it's been needed though.

 

[StevieTee]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking 2 twin and earth cables into a downlight that has been designed for this purpose. It's only the poor quality ones where this becomes a possibly unsafe issue as they tend to be designed to take a 0.75mm flex and not much more.

I also use line boxes and have used click flows in the past, only when it's been needed though.

I think if you read over my initial post again you will see I never once said there was anything wrong with. What I did say was I hate seeing it, because the connector block is rubbish and only made for smaller flex.

 

[Leesparkykent]

The flow connectors is how we usually do it on new builds. Recently completed a block of 19 flats of exactly the same layout, so 1st fix, mid fix which consists of cutting out for dry line boxes, mounting CCU and glanding SWA, cutting out down lights and terminating them in to the flow connectors. Makes second fix an absolute doddle as get the apprentice flexing the down lights up and putting the connectors on before hand.

 

[Andy78]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking 2 twin and earth cables into a downlight that has been designed for this purpose. It's only the poor quality ones where this becomes a possibly unsafe issue as they tend to be designed to take a 0.75mm flex and not much more.

I also use line boxes and have used click flows in the past, only when it's been needed though.

I think if you read over my initial post again you will see I never once said there was anything wrong with. What I did say was I hate seeing it, because the connector block is rubbish and only made for smaller flex.

Yep I appreciate that. I was just saying that not all downlights have rubbish connector blocks and connection enclosures, just the rubbish ones.

 

[StevieTee]

Yep I appreciate that. I was just saying that not all downlights have rubbish connector blocks and connection enclosures, just the rubbish ones.

I totally agree with you. The rubbish cheap ones are nasty.

Lee, I don't have an apprentice working for me, so I have the privilege of flexing up myself. Could do with geting one I suppose.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I totally agree with you. The rubbish cheap ones are nasty.

Lee, I don't have an apprentice working for me, so I have the privilege of flexing up myself. Could do with geting one I suppose.

I might even try the wago lite boxes and 224-112 connectors next as I imagine these would even save more time.

 

[StevieTee]

I might even try the wago lite boxes and 224-112 connectors next as I imagine these would even save more time.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Might give it a bash on the job I've got this week.

 

[Andy78]

I can vouch for the wagobox lite being a really good product for this application amongst others. Almost as good as the line box.

It's a whole load better than the large wagobox which is awkward in most situations due to the single entry point.

 

[murray2707]

2x 1.5 t&e in and out of ansell Icage works fine for me, if you have a joint with feeds etc then it's a hager501

 

[Dave OCD]

95% of the time I use Ansell Orbio 360 downlights now which are supplied with a connector pretty much identical to the 2 part Click flow connectors so it makes for a straightforward install. When extending from a loop in circuit in a loft space I like to use the small 65mm square Schneider grey boxes with Ideal 'in sure' connectors inside. Those boxes are very handy as IP55 rated which is also good for connecting pre-flexed LED floods outside. As someone else said though it's daft to use 1.5 for LED installations, just a waste of money and makes the job that much more fiddly IMO.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Why on earth would anybody use 1.5mm for domestic lighting circuits nowadays, what a waste of money, like using 4mm standard for ring mains

my pet hate!

 

[GETWIRED]

Why on earth would anybody use 1.5mm for domestic lighting circuits nowadays, what a waste of money, like using 4mm standard for ring mains

my pet hate!

1.5mm is my personal preference just because i prefere how it terminates, got me thinking now though...

 

[Dave OCD]

1.5mm is my personal preference just because i prefere how it terminates, got me thinking now though...

If you want a really sound connection on a single 1mm termination just double the end over.

 

[StevieTee]

1.5mm is my personal preference just because i prefere how it terminates, got me thinking now though...

That is why is use it.

Why on earth would anybody use 1.5mm for domestic lighting circuits nowadays, what a waste of money, like using 4mm standard for ring mains

my pet hate!

So what do you use?

There is only a couple of pounds difference between 1mm and 1.5mm where I get my stuff from.

 

[123]

Can't get 1mm T&E this side of the pond in too many places

 

[Leesparkykent]

I haven't used 1.5 T&E for years on domestic.

 

[davesparks]

As far as domestic installs are concerned then 1mm for lighting and 2.5 for small power is almost always the most suitable size.
Generally commercial installs seem to have adopted 2.5mm for lighting and 4.0 for small power as accepted minimum sizes these days, which as a rule of thumb accounts for grouping and VD by default.

 

[StevieTee]

As far as domestic installs are concerned then 1mm for lighting and 2.5 for small power is almost always the most suitable size.
Generally commercial installs seem to have adopted 2.5mm for lighting and 4.0 for small power as accepted minimum sizes these days, which as a rule of thumb accounts for grouping and VD by default.

That is what I do for commerical. But where I am, 1mm and 1.5mm are pretty much the same price.

 

[davesparks]

That is what I do for commerical. But where I am, 1mm and 1.5mm are pretty much the same price.

What's price got to do with it? 1.0mm is easier to work with, takes up less space in joist holes and fits in to daft decorative light fitting terminal boxes a bit easier

 

[Andy78]

I had never used 1mm twin before I started doing domestic work, never even seen it in fact. I wouldn't even consider using 1.5mm in a domestic install nowadays though. The tiny stuff is so much easier to work with in the horrible customer supplied light fittings I inevitably end up putting them into.

 

[Leesparkykent]

That is what I do for commerical. But where I am, 1mm and 1.5mm are pretty much the same price.

Its not really about the price IMO more about ease of use especially where down lights are concerned.

 

[StevieTee]

What's price got to do with it? 1.0mm is easier to work with, takes up less space in joist holes and fits in to daft decorative light fitting terminal boxes a bit easier

Welchyboy1's comment is why I mentioned price.

 

[7029 dave]

I like the look of that product that Lee has put up, is that it job done or does it need to be in some kind of enclosure, also anybody that does not use 1mm t&e on domestic, don't do many occupied rewires, some of the conduits are tiny on older properties.

 

[Andy78]

I like the look of that product that Lee has put up, is that it job done or does it need to be in some kind of enclosure, also anybody that does not use 1mm t&e on domestic, don't do many occupied rewires, some of the conduits are tiny on older properties.

They have covers that are not shown in that picture. Aye, you can just about get a 1mm twin and three core down the tiny conduits.

 

[Dave OCD]

I'll use 1.5 for things such as bathroom downflow heaters and depending on length of run and other factors it can be useful for storage heater circuits, most sparks seem to use 2.5mm for these whether it's a 0.85, 1.7,2.55 or 3.4kW, bit of a waste of money really ?

 

[davesparks]

I'll use 1.5 for things such as bathroom downflow heaters and depending on length of run and other factors it can be useful for storage heater circuits, most sparks seem to use 2.5mm for these whether it's a 0.85, 1.7,2.55 or 3.4kW, bit of a waste of money really ?

I'm one of those who use 2.5 for all domestic small power circuits. The main reason is that I only keep 1.0 and 2.5 on the van, I would use the 1.5 so rarely that it would just be taking up space unnecessarily.
But if I had a job with a lot of 10A/16A radials I probably would get some 1.5 in for it.

The last time I used 1.5 twin was for some 10A ufh circuits (3x via a contactor for a big room)

 

[Dave OCD]

I'm one of those who use 2.5 for all domestic small power circuits. The main reason is that I only keep 1.0 and 2.5 on the van, I would use the 1.5 so rarely that it would just be taking up space unnecessarily.
But if I had a job with a lot of 10A/16A radials I probably would get some 1.5 in for it.

The last time I used 1.5 twin was for some 10A ufh circuits (3x via a contactor for a big room)

I mostly do the same Dave, 1.5 is quite nice to work with though and I'll get some once in a while.

 

[SJD]

When I do downlights, it's a 1.5mm T+E to the lighting points, then from each point I install 20A 3 pin push junction box with a 1mm flex comming from the juction box to the downlight itself.

I do it like this because I think it looks good. But curiosity got the better of me, how do you guys install downlights? I get fed up of turning up to jobs and seeing two 1.5mm stuffed straight into the horrble connector blocks that come with the downlights. Never really seen any other methods that I can think of the now.

On the other hand, if you're a builder taking care of the electrics as well, you perhaps only carry 2.5mm on the van (well it's good for both lighting and power) ... in which case you probably strip the outer sheaths off, and cram two sets of unenclosed 2.5mm inner cores into the downlight connector block, perhaps taking care not to overtighten the cable clamp and end up crushing/shorting different coloured cores together. See it done this way!

 

[Welchyboy1]

On the other hand, if you're a builder taking care of the electrics as well, you perhaps only carry 2.5mm on the van (well it's good for both lighting and power) ... in which case you probably strip the outer sheaths off, and cram two sets of unenclosed 2.5mm inner cores into the downlight connector block, perhaps taking care not to overtighten the cable clamp and end up crushing/shorting different coloured cores together. See it done this way!

you forgot to mention also 'snip off the earths!' Lol

 

[Risteard]

Can't get 1mm T&E this side of the pond in too many places

Indeed, and it can often be dearer than 1.5mm^2 as it is a special order.

 

[J.Spark]

Yes 1.0mm definitely easier for wiring through conduits especially when you have up to a 6lever switch with strappers for 2way switching etc etc.....as a standard I use 25mm conduit for switches because you end up having to pull in alot of T&E's at certain switch points. Less time wastage on a job....less time more money ☺

 

[andy riva]

We use the click ct202c four pin plugs for our lighting circuits as that are great to work with. The only draw back is they can be hard to connect a three plate at the first light. These are great to remove the fittings for testing or replacement.
Also the cables are secure within the connector with the supplied clamps

hope this helps