EICR - Code 1 or 2 - for unenclosed conductors in choc-blocs?

[Ian1981]

My company are Niceic, I just think that you should not blindly follow the book to The nth degree and instead , apply your own skills and understanding of bs7671.
Now we all may have a slight variation on what bs7671 says on certain regulations which is fine up to a point but applying C2 codes for tails that are not 25mm....... I don’t think so, not without reason.

 

[Andy78]

The thing is though if you join a scheme then you should to take on board their view on matters, if you don’t agree with them then join a different scheme

I'm in a scheme to facilitate the notification of jobs. That'll do me for involvement.

 

[Charlie_]

Didn’t say follow anybody blindly.
Have you raised your concerns with the nic?
How do your assessments go?

 

[Charlie_]

I'm in a scheme to facilitate the notification of jobs. That'll do me for involvement.

I notify my own jobs

 

[Andy78]

I notify my own jobs

I wish my local authorities were that enlightened.

 

[Charlie_]

Have you tried notifying them yourself?

 

[Andy78]

Have you tried notifying them yourself?

Years back when I started working for myself I enquired about doing so with my local building control offices. They seemed confused and said they were not equipped to receive notifications. After talking to several clueless types and several emails it became clear I would get nowhere and I just joined a scheme.

I must admit I've not tried since.

 

[Charlie_]

They are called scams for a reason and I think the whole notification malarkey may well just be the biggest one going

 

[Ian1981]

Didn’t say follow anybody blindly.
Have you raised your concerns with the nic?
How do your assessments go?

What do you mean concerns?
Code breakers is a Napit publication and not an Niceic guide so he’d probably have no interest.
On the assessment if the assessor questions a code I have given then we discuss it then realise I was correct.
On a serious note I’ve never been asked to change a code that I have given tho maybe add one I have not considered or perhaps have missed.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Code 1 if within reach in an accessible position, code 2 if it's not. Regarding the tails thing that NAPIT suggest is potentially dangerous....Last week I left 16.0mm tails in place on a board change because replacing them would have involved unacceptable disturbance to decoration. The tails have been there since the early Jurassic, show no signs of thermal stress, and IMO are adequate for the present load despite the 100a service fuse. EIC clearly stated my reasons for leaving them in place. and that if additional load is installed consideration must be given to the adequacy of the supply tails. It's also worth pointing out that often where tails are upgraded by an installer to 25mm to the DB, the tails from the head to the meter often remain 16mm, making it rather pointless. Scam guidance on coding is a useful starting point, but must not be considered 'law'.....we can use our judgement.

 

[Charlie_]

If the tails are 300mm or less then there isn’t a problem

 

[The Flyinhos]

I'm not a NAPIT member, I'm in ECA. The way I see it is that every situation is different, but this book is a very good baseline to work from. It is ultimately the inspectors professional opinion. The subject has always been a sticky wicket as the only standard on EICR reporting really was the Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide No 4. Though quite good doesn't go into detail as much s the Codbreakers book does.
Best practice guide 4, free to download
Codebreakers approx £20 +VAT & delivery.

Best Practice Guides | Electrical Safety First - https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/professional-resources/best-practice-guides/

Code 1 if within reach in an accessible position, code 2 if it's not. Regarding the tails thing that NAPIT suggest is potentially dangerous....Last week I left 16.0mm tails in place on a board change because replacing them would have involved unacceptable disturbance to decoration. The tails have been there since the early Jurassic, show no signs of thermal stress, and IMO are adequate for the present load despite the 100a service fuse. EIC clearly stated my reasons for leaving them in place. and that if additional load is installed consideration must be given to the adequacy of the supply tails. It's also worth pointing out that often where tails are upgraded by an installer to 25mm to the DB, the tails from the head to the meter often remain 16mm, making it rather pointless. Scam guidance on coding is a useful starting point, but must not be considered 'law'.....we can use our judgement.

As I stated earlier "It is ultimately the inspectors professional opinion." As like all the books we have BS7671, OSG, GN1-8 ect ect are all guidance. Though building regs & HS acts are law. Each situation can be different, thus it ultimately the inspectors professional opinion, and must form that opinion by the best of there knowledge with the understanding that it is an official document which could be scrutinized in a court of law.
They are the base points at which we start from, not something we try to achieve. In most cases following these you will normally give compliance, but not all of the time. Read, understand, implement, question.
@Marcus Vaughan , hope some of the above posts have been some help.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

As I stated earlier "It is ultimately the inspectors professional opinion." As like all the books we have BS7671, OSG, GN1-8 ect ect are all guidance. Though building regs & HS acts are law. Each situation can be different, thus it ultimately the inspectors professional opinion, and must form that opinion by the best of there knowledge with the understanding that it is an official document which could be scrutinized in a court of law.
They are the base points at which we start from, not something we try to achieve. In most cases following these you will normally give compliance, but not all of the time. Read, understand, implement, question.
@Marcus Vaughan , hope some of the above posts have been some help.

They have been a lot of help (yes I have been following my own post).

It's interesting to see different peoples take on it and the way to approach it all.

I'm not a big fan of carrying out EICRs because of the ambiguity of it all, and some of the things we find are astonishing and don't seem to fit any of the suggested tick boxes in the model forms. They seem to take me hours to procrastinate over and write up.

Reading through other threads today - there are cases where one electrician would give a code 1 and another would give a code 2 or even a 3 for the same non-compliance.

 

[Ian1981]

If the tails are 300mm or less then there isn’t a problem

Do you mean 3 meters?
Not sure what 300mm has to do with it?

 

[Charlie_]

Do you mean 3 meters?
Not sure what 300mm has to do with it?

If the tails were 3 metres long then I would have more of an issue with them than if they were only 300mm long ..