Discuss ELECSA assessment. Domestic+Periodic in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Download them from the IET.

Or buy some unbranded generic ones.

To use the scheme providers forms you must register to do PIR's with them. At a small fee, of course.
 
So it is legal for me to do the PIR without the cert being registered with anyone other then me and the costumer?????

Perfectly legal.

Its a sad fact that anyone qualified or not can carry out PIR's on generic forms.

One thing i would say is make sure you have sufficient PI insurance in place.
 
This is the fuse board i'll be testing, any advice??? The rcd you see on the right hand side is for a shower................it's a TN-S system and the main earth is only a 4mm/ 6mm????
 

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Well, from even just looking at the picture i could give you a list as long as your arm:D


Please do as I think I need all the help I can get lol................I have the cofidence to do any of the work but there's always somthing i'm likely to miss so any pointers will be very much appreciated :)
 
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You say you have the confidence to do any of the work... pardon me if i`ve got the wrong end of the stick but isn`t `the work` (in this case) the PIR you mentioned?

If, as you say, you believe your competent to do a Periodic, then i suggest you post what you see as non-compliances & then others can offer their opinions.

We all need a `little` help sometimes - after all, no-ones inflammable
 
You say you have the confidence to do any of the work... pardon me if i`ve got the wrong end of the stick but isn`t `the work` (in this case) the PIR you mentioned?

If, as you say, you believe your competent to do a Periodic, then i suggest you post what you see as non-compliances & then others can offer their opinions.

We all need a `little` help sometimes - after all, no-ones inflammable


I do have the confidence to do the PIR as you can all tell that this install is no longer compliant.............Having 60A isolater...no RCD other then for the shower........etc, ect I am in the position to rectify any thing thats need doing, so just trying to go about doing the job in the least exspensive way as possible...so just looking for any thing that I haven't thought of

Upgrading the board to a new 17th ..........taking out the isolater and replacing it with a Rcd as a main swith ( in a class II enclouser ) for the whole installation and keeping the existing board providing it conforms to all the tests.

I got the comfidence to do it but experience is lacking I have to admit but I can't let that stop me doing what I have to do........which is why I'm here trying to get advice from the pro's rather then just rushing in and ballsing it all up... so advice would be very much appreciated after all Two haeds are better then one even if we are only sheep lol.....but in all seriousness any comments will be taken on board .........:):)
 
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No offence intended atall Rob, so hopefully none taken your end.:)

But are you actually doing a pucka PIR, or doing a CU change, or doing a quick assessment ahead of a proposed install job. Your various comments leave me a little confused...:confused:

Firstly, altho you mention you do have a 2391 (& they don`t give those away) you haven`t instilled too much confidence with some of your remarks (e.g. Regs & minefield) No-one passes a Periodic exam without knowing BS7671 at least fairly well. We all have holes to our knowledge & i`ll gladly help you fill some of yours (& hopefully my own at the same time)

Likewise, if you`re Part P reg`d you`ll surely be familiar with most of the pertinent regs. If not, be aware what you`re gonna do will be notifiable. And as it was you who mentioned legalities a bit ago...

Lecture mode off :cool:

So, making the assumption that this work is for a PartyPee assessment ;) we`ll all stick our noses in & make an obsevation or two...

Q. How sure are you that`s not an ELCB mate? Kind a looooks like one from the pic :eek:

Q. How sure are you that it`s a TN. The tails coming in plus that Volt op` RCB has me wondering see

Q. Have you actually seen the service head? The above will quickly be answered...


If, as you say it is TN then i`d suggest you get the DNO in to sort out those tails tother side of that isolator before you consider getting assessed on this job. Obviously you`ll do the rest with the Cu change.
Talking of which, forget the idea of the front end RCD - very non comp mate. No discrimination atall. You should already know that. If you get a true 17th board you won`t even need it. And if it does turn out to be a TT you can do without it too if you can do what table 41.1 states.

Anyhowsaround, i`ll leave it at that for fear of lecturing again :(

Sorry if it`s sounded more blah, blah than bah, bah but i`ve had me coat dyed pink today :D

Best regards, Al
 
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No offence intended atall Rob, so hopefully none taken your end.:)

But are you actually doing a pucka PIR, or doing a CU change, or doing a quick assessment ahead of a proposed install job. Your various comments leave me a little confused...:confused:

Firstly, altho you mention you do have a 2391 (& they don`t give those away) you haven`t instilled too much confidence with some of your remarks (e.g. Regs & minefield) No-one passes a Periodic exam without knowing BS7671 at least fairly well. We all have holes to our knowledge & i`ll gladly help you fill some of yours (& hopefully my own at the same time)

Likewise, if you`re Part P reg`d you`ll surely be familiar with most of the pertinent regs. If not, be aware what you`re gonna do will be notifiable. And as it was you who mentioned legalities a bit ago...

Lecture mode off :cool:

So, making the assumption that this work is for a PartyPee assessment ;) we`ll all stick our noses in & make an obsevation or two...

Q. How sure are you that`s not an ELCB mate? Kind a looooks like one from the pic :eek:

Q. How sure are you that it`s a TN. The tails coming in plus that Volt op` RCB has me wondering see

Q. Have you actually seen the service head? The above will quickly be answered...


If, as you say it is TN then i`d suggest you get the DNO in to sort out those tails tother side of that isolator before you consider getting assessed on this job. Obviously you`ll do the rest with the Cu change.
Talking of which, forget the idea of the front end RCD - very non comp mate. No discrimination atall. You should already know that. If you get a true 17th board you won`t even need it. And if it does turn out to be a TT you can do without it too if you can do what table 41.1 states.

Anyhowsaround, i`ll leave it at that for fear of lecturing again :(

Sorry if it`s sounded more blah, blah than bah, bah but i`ve had me coat dyed pink today :D

Best regards, Al


Thanks for your reply and no offence was taken, life is to short to take offence :cool: besides advice is what I asked for and that is what I was given no matter in what form it takes lol :).......

Im doing all of the above, quick assesment, and bringing it up to the 17th standards and a PIR after on the whole installation just to make sure :D ( Sorry for any confusion lol.....)

I have to many quilifications but not enough experience (2330-2...2330-3...2391....2382.....Part P VRQ level 2...) still have a lot to learn but want to do the job once and get it right first time.......
Was just looking for the cheapest option..it's defo a TN system and yes that is a ELCB but it's only rated at a 60A and the demand will be greater then that once the house is up and running again........
ELCBs are not recognised as a means of providing additional protection in BS7671 (2008) due to them requiring an earth as thay work by detecting a voltage to earth, the fault is driven throught the device and once it exceeds it's setting (50V) it would operate..........but most installs have had upgrades and the earth paths have been parrelled with the ELCB so making the ELCB ineffective.......
 
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"want to do the job once and get it right first time......."

Spot on, mate :)

& i`m sure you will.

Good to hearthe ELCB`s being taken down - as you said, now obselete & non-compliant.

Good luck with it & get back with any further queries ;)
 
"want to do the job once and get it right first time......."

Spot on, mate :)

& i`m sure you will.

Good to hearthe ELCB`s being taken down - as you said, now obselete & non-compliant.

Good luck with it & get back with any further queries ;)


Is that a job for the supplyer or can I change the ELCB???? I know you'll all be Screaming at me saying don't touch it :D but just nedd to be sure :confused:
 
"Is that a job for the supplyer or can I change the ELCB?"

It all depends on means of isolation Rob.

Look at the incoming to that main switch.

If you can isolate upstream then by all means rip it out, you`re entitled to work anywhere on consumer`s side of meter, tails & all - ELCBs are no exception.

However, practically, to do this it`s likely the cut-out will need pulling - which is owned by the DNO. You`re not entitled to work on their kit - though loads of sparks do.

If you do opt to get the DNO in, enquire as to the cost of fitting an isolator at the same time. What they`ll charge & how long you`ll have to wait will vary depending on individual company. Pretty sure there`s a sticky on the site somewhere with contact details for various suppliers.

If the supplier aint listed then ask on here as someone may know...
 
before being self employed i wrote tens and tens of pirs
no 2391 .....no training.....just here is a tester....thats the on button
my boss just signed them as the qualifed super
and how could he see the property as i had in order to say it was ok?
anyone know when the last person was taken to court for issuing a pir while not regisered but holding installation quals and experence.
id love to know.....
 
if your boss signed the PIRs, then it's his responsibility, and possible court appearance, not your's
 
And that's where the QS system fails.

You don't get taken to court for issuing a PIR without being registered but you could end up having to defend/justify the PIR in front of a judge and expert witnesses.

This is where the term 'competency' takes on great importance and qualifications/experience can be used to support your competency status.

That's why Professional Indemnity is a must if you intend to carry out PIR's.
 

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