UK Electrical oven installation

[Deleted member 122464]

Just purchased a new oven which has a 13amp fused plug attached. The kitchen has a cooker terminal which has 6mm cable coming from it. The existing oven has a 2.5mm flex (no plug). The hob is separate and also has a 2.5mm flex. Both oven and hob have been chocolate boxed to the 6mm cable - I did not do this!

So I want to be able to plug my new oven in and use the existing hob. The hob specs are 250v and 6kw - mania says to use 2.5m cable which is what the previous owner of the house has done. The new oven is less than 3kw.

Is it ok and proper to place a double gang 13amp fused socket on the end of the 6mm cable which comes from the terminal. Then fix a 13amp plug to the hob - attach the socket to the wall and have both oven and hob plugged in. This preserves the existing terminal in case the hob breaks and we need to hard wire one in the future. Is this ok to do?

 

[buzzlightyear]

you need to read the manufactures instructions and get a spark in to sort it out .

 

[Deleted member 122464]

you need to read the manufactures instructions and get a spark in to sort it out .

Why? I used to be an electrician but my info is from 17th edition and so is not current. I am a competent person but wanting confirmation that what I propose is ok. I am not proposing changing the electrics in the kitchen entirely, just a way to ensure I have both cooker and hob running off the same circuit ... manufacturers instruction aren’t worth the paper they are written on! It advises to plug into a socket in picture format; this is hotpoint!!

 

[ipf]

Agree with buzz. You need a cooker outlet for the 6k supply....and a separate socket for the 3k.
That existing is just a dangerous mess.....

Why? I used to be an electrician but my info is from 17th edition and so is not current. I am a competent person but wanting confirmation that what I propose is ok. I am not proposing changing the electrics in the kitchen entirely, just a way to ensure I have both cooker and hob running off the same circuit ... manufacturers instruction aren’t worth the paper they are written on! It advises to plug into a socket in picture format; this is hotpoint!!

It could well be a HOT POINT, going off your proposal.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

manufacturers instruction aren’t worth the paper they are written on!

I have to disagree on this point, as indeed your insurer may to find a get-out clause, in the event of manufacturer's instructions not being followed and a fire resulting.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

@Orisis_1982 can I confirm that you are asking if it is ok to put a plug on the end of the cable to be used for a 6kW hob?

 

[Deleted account]

What’s the breaker size at the CU?

Is it sufficient to protect the 2.5 mm cable?

 

[Deleted member 105166]

I used to be an electrician but my info is from 17th edition and so is not current.

In that case, if you refer to Section 5 of your 17th big yellow book and Appendix H4 of your on site guide, you should be good to go.

 

[Deleted member 122464]

I have to disagree on this point, as indeed your insurer may to find a get-out clause, in the event of manufacturer's instructions not being followed and a fire resulting.

I could argue I followed instructions and plug into a standard socket (which is never do!) ... point I was making is they are terrible instructions - more like Ikea instructions as no words, just pictures!!
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I have to disagree on this point, as indeed your insurer may to find a get-out clause, in the event of manufacturer's instructions not being followed and a fire resulting.

I could argue I followed instructions and plug into a standard socket (which is never do!) ... point I was making is they are terrible instructions - more like Ikea instructions as no words, just pictures!!
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In that case, if you refer to Section 5 of your 17th big yellow book and Appendix H4 of your on site guide, you should be good to go.

Looks like I’ll have to!
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What’s the breaker size at the CU?

Is it sufficient to protect the 2.5 mm cable?

40 so yes
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Agree with buzz. You need a cooker outlet for the 6k supply....and a separate socket for the 3k.
That existing is just a dangerous mess.....

It could well be a HOT POINT, going off your proposal.

I agree it’s a total mess but I didn’t install any of that and I’m proposing taking it away to make it safe.

 

[Deleted account]

What is the rating of a double socket?

What kind of power will be going through the double socket when ven and hob are in use?

Get the answers to these and your question is answered.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I could argue I followed instructions and plug into a standard socket (which is never do!) ... point I was making is they are terrible instructions - more like Ikea instructions as no words, just pictures!!
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I could argue I followed instructions and plug into a standard socket (which is never do!) ... point I was making is they are terrible instructions - more like Ikea instructions as no words, just pictures!!

@Orisis_1982 I realise you've said you used to be an electrician but this is a pretty simple one so I'm guessing perhaps you didn't practise for very long, there is no disrespect meant here. I would feel uncomfortable giving advice to someone asking if it's ok to put a plug on a 6kW hob as it does show a lack of understanding of electricity and therefore you may make other errors, i.e not terminate tight enough, terminate too tight, have the wrong MCB, not have RCD protection (if required), no continuity of CPC, poor Zs etc etc.. These are all things the electrician would test when he connects up your oven and hob.

I know you want to do it yourself, but just spend £100 and get someone in, then you can be 100% sure it's safe (well 99%) rather than having that creeping thought at the back of your mind on whether you did it right.
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Ps.. as for the manufacturers instructions I would say that the majority of the electricians on this site do take them in to account as the regulations state that we should. If we disagreed with them we could then state why on the minor works certificate that we issue and explain why we have not adhered to the regulations.

 

[buzzlightyear]

point I was making is they are terrible instructions - more like Ikea instructions as no words, just pictures!!

I see what you are saying ,but in those booklets it will say consult a qualified electrician ,and you thought you would ask us ,and looking at the pic you put up and we are not their, call somebody out to sort it out for you .

 

[Deleted member 122464]

@Orisis_1982 I realise you've said you used to be an electrician but this is a pretty simple one so I'm guessing perhaps you didn't practise for very long, there is no disrespect meant here. I would feel uncomfortable giving advice to someone asking if it's ok to put a plug on a 6kW hob as it does show a lack of understanding of electricity and therefore you may make other errors, i.e not terminate tight enough, terminate too tight, have the wrong MCB, not have RCD protection (if required), no continuity of CPC, poor Ze etc etc.. These are all things the electrician would test when he connects up your oven and hob.

I know you want to do it yourself, but just spend £100 and get someone in, then you can be 100% sure it's safe (well 99%) rather than having that creeping thought at the back of your mind on whether you did it right.

Thank you - when I purchased the house 3 months ago I was given all the manuals for the electrical appliances staying. The cooker and hob was 2 appliances staying (the make is one I’ve never heard of before). Both have been installed incorrectly. When reading the manual for the hob it states total power is 6000 watts however, it also states to use a 2.5m cable but also mentions using a ‘fused plug’. This is a mystery to me because my first thought was to add in a 1 gang socket for my new oven and the hob would be hardwired into the terminal - the 2.5m cable and mention of a plug has thrown me. Given how badly the job has been done previously I will get someone to take a look at it and will show them the hob manual and see what they say about it!! I suspect the oven and hob manuals have been translated into English because the language, sentence structure and grammar isn’t great. Saying that, hotpoint’s brilliant Janet and John picture installations aren’t great either ?
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I see what you are saying ,but in those booklets it will say consult a qualified electrician ,and you thought you would ask us ,and looking at the pic you put up and we are not their, call somebody out to sort it out for you .

Thanks, I’ll have to because the existing is already a mess - I moved in 2 months ago and have had a bad time with the electrics and plumbing. Didn’t think to look how the cooker and hob was wired in! Until the cooker blew last week.
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@Orisis_1982 I realise you've said you used to be an electrician but this is a pretty simple one so I'm guessing perhaps you didn't practise for very long, there is no disrespect meant here. I would feel uncomfortable giving advice to someone asking if it's ok to put a plug on a 6kW hob as it does show a lack of understanding of electricity and therefore you may make other errors, i.e not terminate tight enough, terminate too tight, have the wrong MCB, not have RCD protection (if required), no continuity of CPC, poor Zs etc etc.. These are all things the electrician would test when he connects up your oven and hob.

I know you want to do it yourself, but just spend £100 and get someone in, then you can be 100% sure it's safe (well 99%) rather than having that creeping thought at the back of your mind on whether you did it right.
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Ps.. as for the manufacturers instructions I would say that the majority of the electricians on this site do take them in to account as the regulations state that we should. If we disagreed with them we could then state why on the minor works certificate that we issue and explain why we have not adhered to the regulations.

I’m not disagreeing with them but saying how bad the existing appliance instructions are, as I believe they have been translated, and the new oven instructions are just pictures and no words!!

 

[dmxtothemax]

You would need at the very least a small sub board,
from that you could run the hob and the oven
Each with there own breaker

 

[Midwest]

Surprised diversity has not been mentioned.

If the existing cooker final circuit is 32A 6mm cable and if the new appliances come with manufacturers leads, chop off the moulded plugs (if its ok with manufacturer), use a Click dual outlet plate to connect both appliances. The existing outlet plate looks a bit tired, have this final circuit (and the rest of the house wiring) checked over by an electrician.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Chop off the mouled plug a the warranties goes through the window.

 

[telectrix]

Chop off the mouled plug a the warranties goes through the window.

no it does not. warranties can only be refused if you have done something which is detrimental to the appliance.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Don’t chop off melded plug tops . the manufacturer won’t like it if you ever have to call them out

If I ever get a job where the customer insists I cut off the melded plug top I get them to sign a waiver saying I have informed them that this action could likely invalidate any warranty

 

[DPG]

Cutting off a moulded plug does not invalidate your warranty or rights.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Chop off the mouled plug a the warranties goes through the window

what it should say dont chop off the moulded plug .so ner.
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a kitchen fitter told the client he has to cut the moulded plug off a fridge freezer and told the client if there is problems he would sort it out . has you well know when a moulded plugs on the end of appliances it their for a reason .

 

[Midwest]

Have a read of this, re moulded plugs;

Cutting off Moulded Plug Top from appliance - in - UK Electrical Forum

, Cutting off Moulded Plug Top from appliance, UK Electrical Forum, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.

www.electriciansforums.net

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what it should say dont chop off the moulded plug .so ner.
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kitchen fitter told the client he has to cut the moulded plug off a fridge freezer and told the client if there is problems he would sort it out . has you well know when a moulded plugs on the end of appliances it their for a reason .

Say what?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Say what

what, just saying ,that what the kitchen fitter told me on the job and works for a company .

 

[DPG]

I don't see why some people think that moulded plugs are something special. They are used because it is a cheaper way of manufacturing as opposed to someone fitting a traditional type of 13A plug.

If you have a plug that is damaged, there is no issue in replacing it.

 

[Midwest]

what, just saying ,that what the kitchen fitter told me on the job and works for a company .

It was you last sentence that confused me.

 

[Zerax]

...as you well know when a moulded plugs on the end of appliances it their for a reason .

Totally agree Buzz... All EU directives MUST be adhered to !

 

[Dan]

I think the key here is whether homeowners are sticking plugs on the end of things with the wrong wiring setup or wrong fuse etc.

And that's what the warranties will be there for. If the homeowner has screwed something by messing with it, it's going to void the warranty no matter whether it was the actual reason a fault occurred.

Whereas when YOU guys (the electricians) switch a plug around, it probably is due to a repair or whatever. So you're within warranty terms in most cases I'd assume.

That definition is what would be argued in court until the cows come home when a homeowner is trying to get a large firm to pay up for something that's broken.

We hope manufacturers honour their warranties when any fault comes about. But we know as consumers that not all do.

So both sides of the argument are right really.

I think each warranty would need studying before anybody could actually say what would class as a void of it. And we've not got a single one added to this here little thread on the web.

 

[DPG]

You will see in many appliance manuals instructions and diagrams for fitting a mains plug.

Also I think Midwest posted information/replies from several companies who he contacted some time ago regarding this issue. I'm sure a search will find the thread.

 

[Midwest]

#21 (three word thing)

 

[Dustydazzler]

I was told that appliances that come with a BS standard 13a plug top attached then it should not be removed as it will invalidate any manufactures warranty

I most certainly don't want to be the fall guy for an invalidated warranty when X customers £400 oven goes wrong and the manufacture refuse to repair it because someone cut the plug top off...

 

[Midwest]

I was told that appliances that come with a BS standard 13a plug top attached then it should not be removed as it will invalidate any manufactures warranty

I most certainly don't want to be the fall guy for an invalidated warranty when X customers £400 oven goes wrong and the manufacture refuse to repair it because someone cut the plug top off...

That’s a bit of a myth I’m afraid . If in doubt email the manufacturer. I found that most are not bothered. I did read somewhere , that moulded plugs are used to simplify the manufacturing processes and has nothing to do with safety.

 

[DPG]

That’s a bit of a myth I’m afraid . If in doubt email the manufacturer. I found that most are not bothered. I did read somewhere , that moulded plugs are used to simplify the manufacturing processes and has nothing to do with safety.

Absolutely. more words here and here

 

[Deleted member 105166]

That’s a bit of a myth I’m afraid . If in doubt email the manufacturer. I found that most are not bothered. I did read somewhere , that moulded plugs are used to simplify the manufacturing processes and has nothing to do with safety.

Essentially the safety aspect with a moulded plug is that it prevents an Ordinary Person from attempting to fit a wired plugtop and getting it wrong, be that be miswiring, not sufficiently tightening, leaving exposed or nicked inner cores, etc, etc.