Extending a rising main?

[youraveragejoe]

I am a mechanical engineer and has come across a rising main in a house which had been cut and joined using a crimped barrel connector. Common senses tells me this is against regs but i cant find anything specific which says it is not acceptable. What do people think?

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

a pic. would be useful. is the joint sound and insulated?

 

[youraveragejoe]

Insulation consisted of standard insulation tape wrapped around it. Image above shows earth joint but others are the same. No evidence of over heating or failure.

Thanks

 

[Jay Sparks]

If the crimps are properly insulated and properly secured useing the correct tool, then they should be ok. If done correctly, crimps are classed as a fixed/permanent connection.
Although there is no substitute for a continued/unbroken cable.



Just to add, I am talking about crimps in general.
obviousley heat shrink should be used. The pic doesn't show the L & N, so can't comment on them.

Jay

 

[Marnik]

Heat Shrink !!

 

[telectrix]

the pic only shows the earth cable being joined. mapart from the excess copper on show, that's acceptable. if either or both live conductors are jointed similarly, they should be covere with the appropriate colored heat shrink sleeving. bog standard insulation tape is verboten.

 

[Engineer54]

Apart from excess insulation being removed and that it should have been crimped twice rather than the once or that it has hasn't been provided with a suitable means of insulation, it shouldn't be a problem.

You won't find anything in any regulations about this type of connection being against anything, as it's an approved/recognised form of ''Permanent'' connection/joint!!!

 

[telectrix]

but only if it's done right. better than a choc block, as i have found from time to time.

 

[Octopus]

If its "accesible" maybe a suitablely rated JB would be a more suitable connection?

 

[Darkwood]

Anyone noticed the discolouration on the L conductor it looks like its been getting hot and assume the crimp is out of view for the L...... also agree the butt crimp should have been double crimped how on earth (no pun intended) does the cable expect to be properly gripped on both ends???

 

[onions1066]

Anyone noticed the discolouration on the L conductor it looks like its been getting hot and assume the crimp is out of view for the L...... also agree the butt crimp should have been double crimped how on earth (no pun intended) does the cable expect to be properly gripped on both ends???

Never mind the discolouration of the L more to the point he has a really hairy thumb

sorry only joking I think that is light shining onto it or the flash off the camera as its looks ok a bit further down the cable

 

[Darkwood]

on my laptop the discolouration it lower down too ...i thought about light at first but the blue would also show same if so and you can clearly see light reflecting strongly of the black tape so its not shadowed it discoloured..

Can OP post a pic of Live crimp or a wider field view of joints

 

[youraveragejoe]

i don't have another photo at the moment but i think the discoloration is due to the lighting only as i checked it at the time and found no obvious discoloration.

 

[amlu]

well made crimp and good tape much better than scruffy chocblock stuck under the floor without tape

 

[Darkwood]

Id be inclined to check it again ...you may be correct or it may be the fact the light level was poor and thats why you missed it but the camera flash has shown it up... .its only a minor discolouration but would be present both sides of joint with heat tranfer and the fact the earth is not crimped correctly would lead me to believe the same poor crimp method has been repeated on the other cores.... i take it when you say rising mains that is your terminology for these cables or in a trunking or suitable enclosure and are not run like we see them (single insulated)

 

[Darkwood]

well made crimp and good tape much better than scruffy chocblock stuck under the floor without tape

This is a poor crimp joint ... how is it a good one and i dont mean the tape or lack of heat shrink.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think amlu means generally!

I can't see how that joint is holding together.
I'd be using these for those joints.

 

[i=p/u]

Rising main to me is cables going up (vertical) so strained maybe with weight , but I'd crimp other side

 

[Darkwood]

Actually may owe Amlu an apology .... looking closely there is a ratchet grip mark on the lower part of the crimp ... if this is a ratchet mark then the second crimp is on the other side out of view.....

Only the OP can confirm but if its been crimped once its a bad joint and may not survive a short circuit and if the other crimps are the same with one crimp they will be prone to overheating.

 

[youraveragejoe]

The cable is the main supply cable connecting the utility companies meter on the external wall to the domestic distribution board in the house.

I think what happened was that the cable was damaged at this point, the person cut out the damaged section, cut back the outer insulation, cut back a small section of the individual core insulation to allow for the crimp and then joined the cores, somewhat staggering the joints. They then wrapped each core in insulation tape and then wrapped the three cores together with more tape. No heat shrink, no conduit, no outer sleeve. The cable was running through the wooden structure of the house.

Thanks to everyone for the information, much appreciated.

 

[Darkwood]

Well if they are single insulated then deffo a no-no and require containing through-out or replacing with appropriate double insulated cable...

 

[Heisenberg]

Apart from excess insulation being removed and that it should have been crimped twice rather than the once

That was exactly what I was thinking. Looking at the joint as it stands, it's difficult to see how the single crimp could possibly hold both cables securely :sad3:. Why on earth would anyone go to the bother of doing crimps and then only crimp once :rolleyes2:

 

[Heisenberg]

Actually may owe Amlu an apology .... looking closely there is a ratchet grip mark on the lower part of the crimp ... if this is a ratchet mark then the second crimp is on the other side out of view.....

Tin Hat on, but I don't think there is any way that the bottom half of that barrel connector has been crimped. Well not with the same crimpers I use anyway.

 

[Darkwood]

My crimper only indents one side but keeps the other side complete but leaves a faint grip mark and thats what i saw in the photo ... it does seem obsurd that the repairer has the correct crimp and crimping tool but only crimps half the joint even common sense would have a novice putting a crimp onto each cable... so il edge my bets and say its just hidden on the other side.

 

[shanky887614]

My crimper only indents one side but keeps the other side complete but leaves a faint grip mark and thats what i saw in the photo ... it does seem obsurd that the repairer has the correct crimp and crimping tool but only crimps half the joint even common sense would have a novice putting a crimp onto each cable... so il edge my bets and say its just hidden on the other side.

if its worth doing its worth overdoing.

i double/tripple crimp everything

from 1mm ferules to 16mm+ crimps

for the time i takes why not double/tripple crimp

 

[Knobhead]

if its worth doing its worth overdoing.

i double/tripple crimp everything

from 1mm ferules to 16mm+ crimps

for the time i takes why not double/tripple crimp

With an indented crimp? If you did that on a job I was on you would be wiping your arse 2" below you're neck!



PS that crimp is over sized for fine stranded copper.

 

[shanky887614]

With an indented crimp? If you did that on a job I was on you would be wiping your arse 2" below you're neck!



PS that crimp is over sized for fine stranded copper.

mainly use belden/yy which is fine for 1mm ferrules

 

[Engineer54]

With an indented crimp? If you did that on a job I was on you would be wiping your arse 2" below you're neck!



PS that crimp is over sized for fine stranded copper.

How do you secure a butt crimp with a single crimp, be it an indent crimping tool or otherwise??
All our long shank cable lugs for both LV and MV terminations on cables 50mm and over all get double indent crimped!!

 

[Knobhead]

That isn't a long shank butt crimp and it isn't 50mm or anywhere like.

If it was something on a system critical cable I would always solder butt joints. I've never had a joint fail on either LV or MV.
Butt I'm old fashioned.

 

[Engineer54]

That isn't a long shank butt crimp and it isn't 50mm or anywhere like.

If it was something on a system critical cable I would always solder butt joints. I've never had a joint fail on either LV or MV.
Butt I'm old fashioned.

I was just making the point that Double indent crimping is standard practice on cable cable lugs. ie, It's not a detrimental practice. As for butt crimps, you crimp each cable into a butt crimp. Your probably right about the crimp termination shown is an over sized crimp... lol!!

I haven't used or seen a soldered joint or soldered lug now for more years than i care to remember. lol!!

 

[shanky887614]

How do you secure a butt crimp with a single crimp, be it an indent crimping tool or otherwise??
All our long shank cable lugs for both LV and MV terminations on cables 50mm and over all get double indent crimped!!

who said anything about butt crimp

i was refering to how i crimp bootlace ferrules by double drimp i mean crimp it with 1mm on crimps the same ferrule at next size down.

and with lugs i do 2/3 next to each other (this is what was using on lthw pump)

 

[Engineer54]

who said anything about butt crimp

i was refering to how i crimp bootlace ferrules by double drimp i mean crimp it with 1mm on crimps the same ferrule at next size down.

and with lugs i do 2/3 next to each other (this is what was using on lthw pump)

Errr, it's a butt crimp that is shown in the OP photo!!! ...lol!!

 

[shanky887614]

Errr, it's a butt crimp that is shown in the OP photo!!! ...lol!!

missed that, tapatalk didnt load the pic

 

[Knobhead]

Groan.

 

[Engineer54]

Groan.

Haven't you taken your medication yet Tony?? lol!!

 

[zenfast]

get a trician to have a look any one who can cover that type of joint in PVC is a numpty and cant be trusted to be capable or a competent person .(PVC tape guys we have stopped calling it insulation tape...cos its not)...however, it might be servicable after another crimp and double sleeving with heatshrink.

 

[sparkdog]

Rising Main that's water isn't it?

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Have we established what mechanical protection these cables have yet and are the supported if it's a vertical run?

 

[HandySparks]

get a trician to have a look any one who can cover that type of joint in PVC is a numpty and cant be trusted to be capable or a competent person .(PVC tape guys we have stopped calling it insulation tape...cos its not)...however, it might be servicable after another crimp and double sleeving with heatshrink.

Welcome to the forum.

I should think that the job's been sorted long ago.

 

[7029 dave]

Rising Main that's water isn't it?

15mm I believe? lol