The 60cm seems quite specific though, is that some general guidance for sinks instead of bathroom-specific zones?
There's nothing specific in BS7671. There are a few documents that mention 30cm, e.g. NHBC technical notes, GN1, and those fine fellows upholding the standards of the industry at NICEIC...
Section 512.2 has only general comments for the external influence of Water.
There's no sign of it in Section 701, so I suspect it's the interpretation of whoever produced that diagram.
What happened one site produced the drawing with the zone around the sink. A second site who wanted to put a pic on their site Googled it and up came the zoned sink drawing, they copied it. Can you see where this is going.
The regs specifically state a room “containing a bath or shower”
If it included the wash hand basin, then WCs would be included.
If it included the wash hand basin, then WCs would be included.
Could you give us one more clue?
Thanks Julie
I manage to speak to him today ( he was booked by the lettings agent so not had any contact with him before ) . He said the reason for putting the isolator switch outside and making it waterproof ( even though it was outside zone 2 ) was that if someone was drunk and stepped out of the shower or reached around the bath and switched on the switch ( this is above the door so not easy to reach from either place except if you stepped out) then it would be a safety issue whereas if you went outside the bathroom you were more likely to be dressed .
he mentioned that the lights are IP20 . So if they are outside zone 2 , they should still be ok ?
That is a ridiculous reason if they are not in zone 2 there is no issue.
Complain to Napit. Take some photo's, say you are willing to email them photos and the report, and quote this response.
You can't C2 something in case someone is drunk. It doesn't make sense anyway, by his logic you would need IP rated switches in the kitchen in case you washed up and then turned something on.
Outside of Zone 2 i.e. just like anywhere else in the property IP2x is acceptable to the regs.
Would I fit them, depends, good modern ventilated bathroom, probably, old unventilated bathroom I would more than likely fit a higher rated fitting, however this would be by choice not compulsory.
thank you for the advice
sorry can I also ask...the socket under the kitchen sink he will not pass the report if it is not waterproof when I asked what regulation it is voilatiing as he said it is a safety hazard ..so i am a bit stuck there . I cant remember if there is a second switch but he mentioned 2 and changing them both. Since there are to plug in a dryer /washing machine ( there is no space in the kitchen for this and I am having the cracked plug in the garage replaced where the dryer and washing machine machine are plugged in , I was thinking of getting this taken out once I make sure it is not in use .
But if it is and if there is no regulation do i still have to change it ? and can he refuse to give me a pass eicr just for this issue . But if it really is a safety hazard I can look at changing ot taking this out
There is nothing wrong with that socket. Please tell me this isn't the same electrician you are using to replace your consumer unit in the other thread.
One of the flaws of the system is that the inspector has the final say.
But the inspector is supposed to test according to the regs. There is also a document called Best Practise Guide 4 (free online).
The scheme he belongs to (the same scheme as I do) has rules. The scheme rules are that complaints must first be made in writing to the electrician concerned. If that doesn't get anywhere, then you can complain to Napit.
I would draft a letter of complaint, saying other electricians (including other Napit members) do not agree with the observations, and could they help get this matter resolved. See what happens.
ok thank you..that is really good advice
yes he did the original EICR but I am getting another quote as well. Both have said parts are unavailable/expensive to source and best to replace . He is adamant on not issuing the pass certificate if I do not get this changed . He kept saying it is your house and you can do whatever you want but this has been listed as a C2
Being generous, this is just another case of an electrician testing to what he thinks the rules should be, not what they actually are.
Being not so generous, it could be viewed as a money generating exercise.
Condemning the socket under the sink (on IP grounds) is beyond ridiculous. It's even mounted on the structure of the house, rather than the cupboard carcase (for which there is a tenuous argument that it's not permitted.)
Regarding the bathroom lights, there is a regulation that requires equipment to be suitable for the environment into which it is installed, but unless there is evidence of considerable condensation in this bathroom, I wouldn't consider this remotely applicable.
If fitting new lights in a bathroom, I think most of us would fit IP rated ones, but they are not a requirement.
Being not so generous, it could be viewed as a money generating exercise.
Condemning the socket under the sink (on IP grounds) is beyond ridiculous. It's even mounted on the structure of the house, rather than the cupboard carcase (for which there is a tenuous argument that it's not permitted.)
Regarding the bathroom lights, there is a regulation that requires equipment to be suitable for the environment into which it is installed, but unless there is evidence of considerable condensation in this bathroom, I wouldn't consider this remotely applicable.
If fitting new lights in a bathroom, I think most of us would fit IP rated ones, but they are not a requirement.
ok thank you Brian...this is the first time I am renting a place so i guess there is a lot to learn
Back at #55 there was mention of a cracked socket for washing machine and dryer?
It’s likely to crack again with two high load appliances being used at the same time.
Just an observation.
It’s likely to crack again with two high load appliances being used at the same time.
Just an observation.
yes switch was not cracked before inspection but i will have it replaced for sure
Hang on..... so, the inspecting 'electrician' damaged the faceplate?!
yes it was not cracked before . My dryer was plugged into it before and I used it regularly and there was no crack .
We were not in the property when the EICR was done as the lettings agent arranged it . I have asked if the plate was damaged when the testing was done but not had a response .
Going back to the original report, I would be very interested to know how quickly the RCD trips when you press the test button.
The readings on the report say >500 (x1) and >410 (x5). Assuming these are milliseconds, I think that even without a testing machine you could discern if it trips in 'about half a second' or 'instantaneously'.
If it proves that the RCD is in fact ok, then as far as I can see we are now reduced to one incorrect breaker and a possible shower circuit issue.
General point -
When I (rarely) do remedial work for someone else's EICR, if I disagree with a C2 I justify why on my write up citing relevant regulations and photographic evidence why . You don't actually need a certificate that says "satisfactory", you need written proof that required remedial work has happened, and for me I just use a letter. Here's two excepts from a recent one I wrote:
and a bit later:
My point is that you don't need the same person to do remedials, and you don't need another EICR, you just need someone to evaluate matters and do required remedials who takes a professional approach.
All the best with this.
The readings on the report say >500 (x1) and >410 (x5). Assuming these are milliseconds, I think that even without a testing machine you could discern if it trips in 'about half a second' or 'instantaneously'.
If it proves that the RCD is in fact ok, then as far as I can see we are now reduced to one incorrect breaker and a possible shower circuit issue.
General point -
When I (rarely) do remedial work for someone else's EICR, if I disagree with a C2 I justify why on my write up citing relevant regulations and photographic evidence why . You don't actually need a certificate that says "satisfactory", you need written proof that required remedial work has happened, and for me I just use a letter. Here's two excepts from a recent one I wrote:
and a bit later:
My point is that you don't need the same person to do remedials, and you don't need another EICR, you just need someone to evaluate matters and do required remedials who takes a professional approach.
All the best with this.
If a 2G socket has been provided for a washing machine and an adjacent tumble drier, then it should be replaced by a dual box and 2 x 1G sockets. (As it should have been on first installation)
More to the point, you need someone, like timhoward, to do the first EICR. Someone who knows what he's doing.
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I think you are being generous assuming it was actually a properly qualified electrician doing the EICR
I need to check whats plugged in ...could
Also does the person who does the remedial work charge to.issue the EICR certificate . Or do I go back to te original EICR engineer to.show him the work done report . The guy who.has quoted me.for remedial.work is also charging me for a EICR certificate . Not sure how this works
I slightly despair at the system sometimes....it's not obvious how it is supposed to work.
The thing is, people like to end up with a certificate that says "Satisfactory". Like a car MOT. But the PRS law clearly says you just need written evidence that the remedial work has been done (I quoted the law in the letter I previously posted).
So you might reasonably be charged for some admin time to write a letter, but it isn't necessary to have another EICR report / certificate done. That said, if the fee is modest there is nothing wrong with having another set of EICR paperwork with no (or only C3) observations, and Satisfactory on the front.
Hope that helps.
Hi Tim
He will charge £120 to.issue a pass/ new EICR . Can i submit the oŕiginal EICR with the evidence or remedial work done . And who do I submit this to.please
Also just to add in the bathroom anything under the bath/shower basin is considered to be zone 1, however if a tool is required to access under the bath/shower then it doesn’t have any zone.
Yes you can but please do not use the same electrician find someone reputable. Some of these apparent Code 2s a different electrician will say works are not required.
Yes trying to get other quotes now
Unless anyone (like a letting agent) asks for it, you just have to hold it. A bit like no one comes knocking to see your car MOT.
you cannot pay for a pass. So charging £120 for a EICR with a pass is not possible.
you’ve already paid for the EICR. It Came back unsatisfactory. That’s it, no new EICR is required. Just proof the issues it came back unsatisfactory for have been rectified.
i normally issue a statement of fact listing works I have done.
if I strongly disagree with a coding that has resulted in a fail, I will state this that no works where required due to my belief the installation does not require it to acheive a satisfactory ( only ever done this once).
at the bottom of the statement of fact I would write-
i have carried out all works to bring (installation address) up to a standard to achieve a satisfactory based on EICR cert number 123456 done on (date done) by (contractor business name).
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