Fire rating communal Electrical cupboards

[Paulgwat]

Hi all,

After some thoughts on the following scenario.

Block of 16 flats configured 4per floor over 4floors - on each floor is an electrical cupboard containing the DNO fuse, electric meter, switch fuse in metal housing.

The cupboards are in the communal staircase

Walls, floor and ceiling of cupboards are concrete - doors are currently standard construction albeit with suited locks

At my latest Elecsa visit my assessor pointed out that he felt the doors should be fire rated with intumescent seals, last week we had an FRA done on the building and it was again the opinion that the cupboard doors should be fire rated.

I am obviously aware of the requirment for the switch fuses to be of non combustible construction and we are fine on this, where I am being picked up is that the meter is plastic.

I sort of understand this position except for the fact that on a very similar job recently the DNO came in and fitted a double pole isolator in a plastic housing between the service head and the meter and told me the requirement for a non combustible housing doesn’t apply to kit they install.

So after a long winded intro what do people think? Would you fit fire rated doors or not?

Thanks

Paul

 

[westward10]

This has been picked up on the FRA but yes they should have protected doors to prevent spread onto the stairwell. It is irrelevant the type of equipment installed, those cupboards should not be on stairwells although if it is historic you are stuck with it. This is however not an electrical issue.

 

[Pete999]

Yes and any cable/conduit or trunking entry holes should brseales as well

 

[Octopus]

Block of 16 flats configured 4per floor over 4floors - on each floor is an electrical cupboard containing the DNO fuse, electric meter, switch fuse in metal housing.

The cupboards are in the communal staircase

Walls, floor and ceiling of cupboards are concrete - doors are currently standard construction albeit with suited locks

At my latest Elecsa visit my assessor pointed out that he felt the doors should be fire rated with intumescent seals, last week we had an FRA done on the building and it was again the opinion that the cupboard doors should be fire rated.

I am obviously aware of the requirment for the switch fuses to be of non combustible construction and we are fine on this, where I am being picked up is that the meter is plastic.

The selection of doors is not your responsibility

The meter is outside your remit.

I would recommend you ask Elecsa to confirm, in writing, what precisely the issues are, and more importantly which regs are being broken.

I would suggest that your assessor is clutching at straws

 

[Pete999]

The selection of doors is not your responsibility

The meter is outside your remit.

I would recommend you ask Elecsa to confirm, in writing, what precisely the issues are, and more importantly which regs are being broken.

I would suggest that your assessor is clutching at straws

Might not be the OPs responsibility Murdoch, but common sense will dictate that the cupboard doors should be fire retarded, don't want a Mini Grenfell on our hands do we?

 

[Octopus]

Might not be the OPs responsibility Murdoch, but common sense will dictate that the cupboard doors should be fire retarded, don't want a Mini Grenfell on our hands do we?

As I said its not OUR responsibility to specify doors ................

As for Grenfell - we just need the DCLG to accept they write very poorly written building regs that are too open to interpretation.

 

[Pete999]

As I said its not OUR responsibility to specify doors ................

As for Grenfell - we just need the DCLG to accept they write very poorly written building regs that are too open to interpretation.

Yeah OK point taken Mate.

 

[Nigel]

The FRA will dictate at what level, if any the fire doors need to be rated at. This is outside if the scope of BS7671.

Also BS7671 only covers the consumers side of the installation so the DNO meter is not under that remit. Even if it was a check meter you would you consider a meter to be ‘similer switchgear’?

 

[Pete999]

The FRA will dictate at what level, if any the fire doors need to be rated at. This is outside if the scope of BS7671.

Also BS7671 only covers the consumers side of the installation so the DNO meter is not under that remit. Even if it was a check meter you would you consider a meter to be ‘similer switchgear’?

Similar I'm in my School teacher mode this morning, marking bad spelling, no offence meant.

 

[Paulgwat]

I should have said I am responsible for the complete refurb of the building inside and out.

Building is 1960’s in origin and location of equipment is fixed and no scope to change - all we have done to date is fit new locks to the existing doors and have them decorated.

When we had building control look at the place at the outset of the project the doors didn’t come up as an issue - only now once we have almost finished are they coming up as an issue.

Thanks for everyones input I will wait for the full FRA report and talk to the client on how best we do something to comply - I see a trip to Cotswold intumescents or some new doors in my future.

Paul

 

[westward10]

Unless you are well versed with the protection of openings to protected walls and stairwells I would advise professional help as it is not just a case of fitting some strips to the doors.

 

[Octopus]

Wonder why the Elecsa assessor is poking his nose in things that are clearly outside our remit?

Maybe next year, distract him with nicer biscuits...........

 

[westward10]

I expect he/she has been on a short course and is trying to be clever. This appears to be a major oversight by building control as fire safety/control is top of the list.

 

[Paulgwat]

The building control discussion was held in 2016 and the argument used by them and the client at the time was pre-existing circumstances, obviously this was well before Grenfell.

I have building control and a specialist fire engineering firm in next week to cover fire sealing of other areas of the building so will see what they recommend.

 

[westward10]

Grenfell should not come into it but glad you are going down the correct route.