Help 3phase dishwasher

brum · Jul 19, 2014

Hi guys fitted a commercial dishwasher today extended c/w supply made drainage alterations etc.Being a helpful stupid bloke connected up cables.Didnt know neutral changed from black to blue so have connected up incorrectly none of the breakers tripped am I in the brown stuff or not im a plumber to trade(thought it better to put that in last)In my day blue was a phase and black neutral...help plz:willy_nilly:

rapparee · Jul 20, 2014

brum said:
Hi guys fitted a commercial dishwasher today extended c/w supply made drainage alterations etc.Being a helpful stupid bloke connected up cables.Didnt know neutral changed from black to blue so have connected up incorrectly none of the breakers tripped am I in the brown stuff or not im a plumber to trade(thought it better to put that in last)In my day blue was a phase and black neutral...help plz:willy_nilly:

if it's 3 phase what were the other colours of the live phases and neutral, red yellow blue and black or brown black grey and blue? if it's the latter then go back and change it before it is turned on

Clive P · Jul 20, 2014

Hi,

If I was you I would slip an Electrician a nice wedge to come and have a look for you, or alternatively ask some nice ladies ( no inference intended to the opposite sex here, but they are so much better at this than us lowly gentlefolk) to do the washing up.
Strap yourself in tight , it's going to be a rough ride.

Regards.

telectrix · Jul 20, 2014

3 phase dishwasher... is that 3 diffeernt birds on shiftwork in my kitchen..... heaven.

Besoeker · Jul 20, 2014

brum said:
Hi guys fitted a commercial dishwasher today extended c/w supply made drainage alterations etc.Being a helpful stupid bloke connected up cables.Didnt know neutral changed from black to blue so have connected up incorrectly none of the breakers tripped am I in the brown stuff or not im a plumber to trade(thought it better to put that in last)In my day blue was a phase and black neutral...help plz:willy_nilly:

Yes, "harmonised" colours have been around for a few years now.
I think the idea was and is madness.
For the very reason you have illustrated. Confusion.

That doesn't absolve you from the gaffe. It's a job you should not have undertaken.
But I do have sympathy - you were trying to help.

I don't know what the consequences are likely to be in terms of possible equipment damage.
You've swapped a phase and the neutral. Some bits of the kit will get line to line voltage as they should. Other things like motors expecting 3-phase will get unbalanced.

But possibly worst is that some bits of the kit designed for line to neutral will get line to line voltage. Not good. Possible or even probable damage.

I'm sorry I can't be the bearer of better tidings........

Silly Sausage · Jul 20, 2014

Fear not, my friend, help is but a few clicks away...
Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice | Plumbers Forums | A forum for plumbers advice in the UK

123 · Jul 20, 2014

That old saying comes to mind...."A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

telectrix · Jul 20, 2014

Besoeker said:
Yes, "harmonised" colours have been around for a few years now.
I think the idea was and is madness.
For the very reason you have illustrated. Confusion.

That doesn't absolve you from the gaffe. It's a job you should not have undertaken.
But I do have sympathy - you were trying to help.

I don't know what the consequences are likely to be in terms of possible equipment damage.
You've swapped a phase and the neutral. Some bits of the kit will get line to line voltage as they should. Other things like motors expecting 3-phase will get unbalanced.

But possibly worst is that some bits of the kit designed for line to neutral will get line to line voltage. Not good. Possible or even probable damage.

I'm sorry I can't be the bearer of better tidings........

can't agree more. absolute lunacy. harmonisation with what? the french, no they still cling to red,white,blue, as it's the flag of the king killers. spanish. no, they use whatever colour suits. germans, who cares, we won.

Besoeker · Jul 20, 2014

Archy Styrigg said:
Fear not, my friend, help is but a few clicks away...
Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice | Plumbers Forums | A forum for plumbers advice in the UK

Not plumbing that seems to be the problem though....

telectrix · Jul 20, 2014

but plumbers know everything, don't they?

Marvo · Jul 20, 2014

Bit late now but for future you need to manually check what colour they've used for neutral when connecting up any 3-phase appliance.

The components most likely damaged by incorrect wiring are the control board and any other electronics there may be plus the motor. You (or someone more knowledgeable with electrics) needs to test all the components and repair/replace them as necessary.

Silly Sausage · Jul 20, 2014

Besoeker said:
Not plumbing that seems to be the problem though....

This OP has got Plumbers troll written all over it!

ian.settle1 · Jul 20, 2014

Won't answer this but

ipf · Jul 20, 2014

Did it go Bang ?

brum · Jul 20, 2014

Well thanks guys I was expecting a lot more abuse sparky came over and changed black and blue connections fired it up and away it went.A very valuable lesson has been learnt this weekend tonight I will sleep need to make up for last nights lack of.Thanks again

brum · Jul 20, 2014

telectrix said:
but plumbers know everything, don't they?

obviously not on this occasion..brum

trev · Jul 20, 2014

Come on, this is a wind up. It has to be, even my wood butcher mates know the colours have changed.

brum · Jul 20, 2014

trev said:
Come on, this is a wind up. It has to be, even my wood butcher mates know the colours have changed.

wish they would have told me

Besoeker · Jul 20, 2014

brum said:
wish they would have told me

Incumbent upon you to find out before playing around with wiring.

I don't mean that unkindly but what you did could have caused damage and possibly put others at risk.

A positive outcome is that you have, inadvertently or otherwise, highlighted the issue.
No doubt you will have learned from it. Perhaps others can too.

PEG · Jul 20, 2014

This is a little lesson in testing to prove what is,and not what should be. I have come across items of equipment connected incorrectly,that functioned fine,because the 3P N+E was wired incorrectly upstream,on a different occasion. A case of two wrongs maybe not making a right,but possibly saving a life...colours,markers,labels,they all remind me of what my dad used to say when he was teaching me to drive..."See that car with its' nearside indicator on,son?...all that tells you for sure,is the lamps working..." :bow:

trev · Jul 20, 2014

brum said:
wish they would have told me

So you saw the colours which made you think one thing but the different colours didn't make you wonder what was really going on there?
Yeah, right.

brum · Jul 20, 2014

Besoeker said:
Incumbent upon you to find out before playing around with wiring.

I don't mean that unkindly but what you did could have caused damage and possibly put others at risk.

A positive outcome is that you have, inadvertently or otherwise, highlighted the issue.
No doubt you will have learned from it. Perhaps others can too.

I certainly have never again thanks guys ...

Lucien Nunes · Jul 21, 2014

You were lucky. More than once I have been called to a pile of smoking equipment where this has happened, either phase / neutral reversal or loss of neutral which can be as serious. Much of it was written off, chucked in the skip and claimed for on insurance. On one occasion I edited the word 'numpty' out of my report at the last minute!