Discuss I never install ring circuits, the potential for danger is unacceptable in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Opinion from a Kiwi.
Found rings to be a bit strange when I started work in Eire. Decided they have their uses especiaĺly for simple installs like a 2 story 3 bed terrace. Anything much bigger they're a pain in the arse. Those fused plugtops are a pain too and so bulky.
My biggest concern tho is how half brained drongo without any training can call themselves a Sharkie and start wiring
A winner for the last Paragraph, don't agree with the first bit though, should that be Sparkie and not Sharkie?
 
Did someone just criticise the UK 13A plug (plug top)? It's widely recognised as the best in the world!
 
To be fair GBdamo, I normally agree with most of your posts, but you're wrong on the ring final ;):)
 
I’d like to know if anyone else here refuses to install ring circuits in domestic premises.

For me it’s either a 20a radial / tree circuit with 2.5mm, or a 32 radial / tree circuit with 4.0mm.

Frankly I’m tired of finding broken ring circuits on 32a CB’s, as well as mismatches on end to end tests. It drives me nuts on jobs that should be simple.

I wish we would get rid of this ridiculous practice here in the UK.

I know some of you will say there’s nothing wrong with it when it’s properly installed and tested, but inevitably at some point in the future someone will come along and disconnect a conductor unknowingly while changing outlets on the circuit.

Testing is more complicated, and diagnosing faults on a ring also.
Qualified sparks see no reason to dislike rfcs
 
I've scoured this thread and the only real reason I've seen the OP come up with as an excuse as to not install ring circuits is that they don't like testing and certifying them/can't be bothered with fixing existing mistakes? (If you're fixing mistakes, not only are you making installations safer for your customers, in business terms it's also more money to be made... just saying)

I'm only a trainee so I'm not gonna pretend I'm any sort of expert in regards to regulations and methods of installation for power circuits - because I'm not. But I can test a ring final just fine, surely if they're a qualified professional I'm sure they do it with relative ease? :p
 
I've scoured this thread and the only real reason I've seen the OP come up with as an excuse as to not install ring circuits is that they don't like testing and certifying them/can't be bothered with fixing existing mistakes? (If you're fixing mistakes, not only are you making installations safer for your customers, in business terms it's also more money to be made... just saying)

I'm only a trainee so I'm not gonna pretend I'm any sort of expert in regards to regulations and methods of installation for power circuits - because I'm not. But I can test a ring final just fine, surely if they're a qualified professional I'm sure they do it with relative ease? :p
There is difficulty in testing rings on EICR's where the layout of the circuit is unknown. Very often r1/rn/r2 and R1+R2 may not be 'text book'. Then the tester is left with the ballache of breaking down the circuit to establish possible spurs off spurs or bridging, extremely time consuming, or simply noting it as an FI. Where a ring is a bog standard loop then it's simple, very often it isn't though.
 
During that time, after WW11, we developed the best and safest electrical supply system in the world. Even today look at some of the rubbish in foreign countries.
I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK.

What I’m saying is don’t generalise
 
When the topic was last aired, I said I would like to see examples of thermal damage to RFC cables caused specifically by overload of one leg, due to the other going O/C. None have been offered so far...

I was called out to an emergency job a couple weeks ago where just that had happened. Ring supplying almost whole house (bad & old design) had broken possibly for a while. Socket nearest db on longer leg had a hairdryer plugged in and melted cable insulation leading to a dead short.

I'm not saying I'm ready to make rings illegal, just that it is a problem when not maintained. It would be a better solution to simply enforce testing requirements more strictly.
 
I was called out to an emergency job a couple weeks ago where just that had happened. Ring supplying almost whole house (bad & old design) had broken possibly for a while. Socket nearest db on longer leg had a hairdryer plugged in and melted cable insulation leading to a dead short.

I'm not saying I'm ready to make rings illegal, just that it is a problem when not maintained. It would be a better solution to simply enforce testing requirements more strictly.

Would that not be due to the loose connection?
Which would also happen if it was a racial circuit
 
I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK.

What I’m saying is don’t generalise

Why not generalise …….if you're talking in general?
Not talking currently, anyway. Think about 40, 50 or even 60 years ago.
The training, in general, regarding our regulations has been on a downward curve since well before the turn of the century,......all due to financial reasons..... pocket lining rather than lack of availability.
 
I work mostly in coach building/mobile hospitality building, We very rarely use ring finals for sockets for the following reasons:

layouts are always being messed with, so easier to change not having to keep in a ring.

If a cable gets damaged in transit, we only loose a small circuit covering a couple of sockets, rather than a ring which would cover a much bigger area.

some installs are for europeans, and a ring would confuse them!

If something starts tripping while in use, and a muppet starts playing with the DB, no chance of him putting the 2 legs on a different phase!!

The only times a ring has really been used is when there will be heavy usage and only room for a small DB.


I now just prefer multiple radials for other work mainly for their simplicity.
 

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