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J

jibspark

I received a letter today from my employer to tell me I'm officially at risk of redundancy and I'm going for a meeting next week to discuss my options..... :(

Things arnt looking good!
 
I received a letter today from my employer to tell me I'm officially at risk of redundancy and I'm going for a meeting next week to discuss my options..... :(

Things arnt looking good!

Real redundancy is where you have someone doing a job that the company will not need to do anymore. If the employer makes you redundant then employs some else to do your old job, you can ask for your old job back and dicker about pay lost in the interim. Depending upon how long you have been with the company these meetings are where you can ask for retraining grants, so if you want some free training to be able to get another job get some quotes and take them to the meeting with you if you dont want retraining then ask what criteria that are using to choose who is leaving and who is staying (get this in writing). If they make you redundant and they havent followed their own criteria you can improve your payout via court/ tribunal and or ask for you job back. Get a copy of the company employee manual if they dont follow their own rules then again the payout goes up and you can keep working for them until they sort it out. Usually once you have left they won't take you back but the payout will reflect this, normal payout is around 2 years wages if they have been naughty and it goes to court/ tribunal and you have been with the company 5years+. Also if this news makes you feel unwell you may have to go off sick with stress, they can't procede with the redundancy until you are well enough to deal with it, if they do they will really have to payout Bear in mind that if you do get a big payout you might never be employed in this field again, but then again you can always work for yourself.
 
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wow cheers mate, ive been with the company 4 years. i will get some quotes on doing my 17th and my 2391 and present this to them.

they have loads of work but they have subcontracted it out and there for have nothing left for their own men, it doesnt seem right to me.
 
B**tards give em some stick, does your house insurance give you free legal advice? If it does then you can get definative advices from them for free and directline for example will take them to court for you. It doesnt sound right to me either it sounds like you need some professional legal advice, ask your company to pay for a solictor at the meeting if you can't get one for free
 
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wow cheers mate, ive been with the company 4 years. i will get some quotes on doing my 17th and my 2391 and present this to them.

they have loads of work but they have subcontracted it out and there for have nothing left for their own men, it doesnt seem right to me.

Hi
Sorry to hear your prediciment jib ,and moog seems to have good knowledge about what you can do .
the "trick" they are using is that they have allready started the sub contractors ,if they got rid of you say while you were in the middle of a job ,and then a subbie carried on with it ,that would be wrong ,if there on different jobs ,im not sure if it applies.
Also it depends in what capacity you are employed ,ie ,if you run jobs or just work on other peoples.
At the end of the day ,if there doing stuff like this ,i would be inclined to try and get another job lined up ,its a lot easier if you have been made redundant rather than pumped,
all the best anyway;)
 
It is an old trick and 90% successful, some agency have contacted them...what does it cost you to employ a spark? err about £30 per hour all told...ok they say, we will send when needed @ £25 per hour, you have no worries, we will sort ni tax blah blah, no holiday payments to pay etc etc. You pay us once per month etc etc...

I'm not having a go at subbies, but that is the way all industry is going...'the new labour way' it sucks. But you cannot blame employers, with the crazy employment laws and very difficult to comprehend legislation. Who can blame them?

There are still some 'old fashioned' firms still going, but even the big ones are 50/50 on the books/subbies.

It is a con, I've done both but would always prefer on the books.

Just before I decided enough is enough, working subbie for some outfit doing tesco stuff...I turns up, have you got a 110v drill 'yes' have you got a 18v/24v drill 'yes' have you got a step ladder...err **** off, the next question will be have I got a cherry picker..get ****ed find someone else..and I would pay money to see the expression on the companies forman's face again.

The last job I worked on was a cancer hospital, x-ray dept. Concrete walls 3 feet thick in places, 6 inch lead lined doors, I have to get a micc cable within, to about 12 units..without making a noise..of course impossible. So they ask me to work out of hours (they don't give a **** about patients, as long as visitors can't hear or vip visitors) so anyhow ok I don't mind, 5am till 12 noon @ time and a half..no probs 5 days, no noise after 9am

I liked the shift it was ok, a doddle in fact more money more time off, no one wanted it on our company but 2 of us agreed to do it. I had been working their for a few months previous, so knew the building and stuff.

It took approx 2 months first fix. Guess what, when first fixed I was made redundant along with 6 or so others on the firm.

But it seems the subbies fetched in to do second fix did not understand my cable identification method -;) and the company invited me back for 2-weeks on double pay...get ****ed, you have already shown your hand, i'm busy with my own stuff now, and have not looked back since.

Loyalty goes a long way in my book
 
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If the employer makes you redundant then employs some else to do your old job, you can ask for your old job back
correct me if i'm wrong but the employer cant fill your space for a couple of years full stop, and if they do employ someone to fill your space then their breaking the law.

btw have you got a contract ?
 
no they can't fill your space, but there are zillions of ways round it. Temp usually forefills the criteria, if not, if you were employed as an electrician, the next post would be electrical maintenance engineer, usually you would have to agree to do other 'none electrical jobs'..so it's not the same job...like i say there are litterally loads of ways round it. Sometimes they will upgrade the job title, electrical engineer for instance...
 
correct me if i'm wrong but the employer cant fill your space for a couple of years full stop, and if they do employ someone to fill your space then their breaking the law.

btw have you got a contract ?

Its a little wheeze they pull, get rid of your expensive qualified staff and replace with monkeys. They rename the job and add and drop some duties and they can get away scotfree. If the job is the fundamentally the same though you can go to the tribunal and argue it as unfair dismissal, redundance is just a class of fair dismissal after all. This is why the employeer has to be so careful to be seen to being super reasonable and fair, hence the free training and solictors advice. If they fail to follow their own rules or slip up in anyway it can become unfair dismissal and then they are in the lottery of court/tribunal, the legal costs alone are usually enough to make them give a fair deal out of court
 
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If you are employed as an electician, then they cannot make you redundant and then advertise a job for an electrician for 2-years. They ain't daft, it is really a load of bull****, there are millions of ways round it. Like in the old days, as soon as you qualified you would be booted out (cos they had to pay you more money) so they would then seek new 'apprentices'. One spark, 20 apprentices

It is going the same way, except now rather than apprentices...use the agency, save 5 quid per hour and loads of hassle
 
Moog, I don't think they replace with monkeys all the time, some subbies are ok and are just trying to make a living. It is not easy getting a job on the books comparitively with subbie work.
Many subbies are well versed in all sorts of stuff, the ones that are cowboys are usually sent home quickly.
 
Moog, I don't think they replace with monkeys all the time, some subbies are ok and are just trying to make a living. It is not easy getting a job on the books comparitively with subbie work.
Many subbies are well versed in all sorts of stuff, the ones that are cowboys are usually sent home quickly.

This wasnt whilst an electrician, it was IT and electronics, as I said get a big payout and don't get employed in same field again. I looked at TUPE earlier today but I dont think it applies
 
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I think we should create a new thread aimed directly at playing the system.

Found this thread VERY interesting.

Well done all who contributed! Especially you Moog
 
Thanks, I vote we take off and nuke the site from orbit, its the only way to be sure
 
Moog, I don't think they replace with monkeys all the time, some subbies are ok and are just trying to make a living. It is not easy getting a job on the books comparitively with subbie work.
Many subbies are well versed in all sorts of stuff, the ones that are cowboys are usually sent home quickly.

Hi
I agree most of the best sparks are subbies ,agencys arnt daft tho,yhey mix a couple of decent sparks in with a few less experianced ,i dont have a problem with that and can normally get another couple of pound out the agent to stay on the job, its lazy sparks i dont like,some are very good experianced tradesmen,but because there subbies they just dont give a ####,its an easy life being a subbie once your in with a few agengys ,it wouldnt suprise me if the guy getting redundancy has been targeted ,and the agent set up to poach the job ,thats the way it is now and has been for quite a long time
like i advised bane ,target an agent ,find a job you want to work on and ask him how much it will cost to get a start,simple:)
 
rummrunner you are of course correct, many subbies don't give **** simply because they have no real ambition. You know, hey we will keep you in work for years...we have a job coming up in barbados, your'e just the guy we are looking for...blah blah ****... the good ones know it is bull****, hence the relaxed yeah man attitude, also the good ones can get a new start next week if need be. Some of the lazy ones are best. They are the tank driver as in 'kelly's heroes' Sure they will take for ages to do a job, but it will be done right. I would much rather have someone who knows what he is doing but slow, than a billy wizz who ****s up.

It is easy to tell real spark, you just know within 5 minutes, I can tell anyhow. It is dead easy. Unfortunately some company bosses cannot.

I get cold called many times, we can get you good experienced sparks for less than you pay your own men...err, I dont employ anyone, now **** off you parasite..-;)

Not entirely true, I give work away if I can't handle. In return I get work back when i'm short..it works ok.
No doubt soon the government will make this system illegal

I have also sold jobs. As a one man band it is hard to maintain a normal working week. For instance i have priced and started biggish jobs (by biggish I mean £20/50k) and in the meantime a more lucrative opportunity comes up, it is not easy to turn down, so I will sell the 20k job and just make a few hundred and move on to the new one. At first I thought a bit deceptive, but many huge firms do the same at a far greater profit. I suppose thats business, it is fraught with danger if the takeover company ****s up, i'm still where it is at. So you have to be extremely careful whom you give/sell work to. Of course I still have my bread and butter stuff, whom expect me every time, they are the ones to keep happy.
 
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As ive said on this forum a few times ,"it doesnt mater how long a job takes as long as its done right" by lazy sparks i ment ones who just dont care,
maybee ive just been on some sh*ty jobs ,sub contract to a well known company who do work for tescos for example,and a few others over the years
ive also worked with what i would consider the absolute best sparks in the game,most of which would agre that work is like sex ,keep up a good steady pace and every cu*ts satisfyed in the end
goodnight all
 
Sorry but I have to put a word in for subbies.
I have worked as a subby now for about 10 years.Before that I was on the books.In my experience most(but not all)of the sparks on the books are the laziest bunch of *******s you can come across.Because they are safe in the knowledge their job is safe,they don't do a lot for their money.Indicative of their lazy ways is the fact that subbies are being called in in the first place.Most subbies(and again not all)have to work to guarantee their jobs and are usually a lot more productive.That is basically why big companies are now leaning towards using subbies.That is the unfortunate truth.
 
Just to remove any doubt I was not saying that in the electrical field that subcontractors were monkeys, I was refering to my experience in the IT field where in my working career it has gone from a science to support by monkeys. They still call them Computer Engineers but aside from knowing how to use and install MS products they are clueless and have no engineering skills nor techniques. The reason that IT is so full of monkeys is that there are no minimum entry qualifications to be able to work in the field, this is not the case with Electricians. With any job that requires skilled knowledge 90% of the time a monkey ( someone of minimal skill and experience ) will do. Unfortunately in IT industry the managers have decided that 90% success mean compete success. The remaining 10% is only ever dealt with if the client complains for long enough, then they get consultants in on short term contracts. In the IT industry not many people die each year because the wordprocessor wont start, in the Electrical field if we get it wrong then people can and do die. Personally, I prefer not to be staff as there is always someone waiting to take credit for my work. Further I would agree that with subbies the monkeys are quickly identified and weeded out, once the word gets out. All this means that I have the upmost respect for working subbies and it is just a shame that people who have put time in working as staff at a lower rate are being screwed over by quick buck management.
 
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