Is Part P a lot of nonsense?

[Ben Butcher]

Hello all,

Sorry for the inflammatory title!.. I will try and keep this as short as possible but I wish to know if there is, was, or ever will be a movement towards to boycotting of the CPS systems? Here's my problem - as I understand it by paying Elecsa lots of money, ticking all the boxes and jumping through the hoops I am 'certified' to sign off my own work in domestic situations without the need to contact building control before commencement of the work blah blah blah. Got it. Now, on completion of a very large house here in sunny Devon I have been informed by the site manager that he wants me to give him all my BS7671 certs so that he can give them to the building inspector. The request is paired with the insistence that if I don't the house will not be issued an occupancy certificate and the client gets grumpy and tries to eat my head. Now on principal I have said no, because if I pay all this money etc surely my part of the building (part P) is essentially not being inspected by him? but by me - and certified by me direct to building control.
Now either Mr Building Inpector does have the right to ask for them, in which case I will boycott part P alone from now on, or he doesn't, in which case by now he should be aware of the system. How long do I have to work in yet another industry where seemingly pointless trade bodies, and certification bodies create massive confusion and cost and never really achieve anything?
Any comments would be gratefully read. B.

 

[stevethesparks]

Have you tried contacting Elecsa for their view?

 

[trev]

Yes, there is a movement to boycott the CPSs

 

[telectrix]

your site manager is a ---. you give your certs to the person ordering the work. end of. BC are notified through elecsa .

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hello all,

Sorry for the inflammatory title!.. I will try and keep this as short as possible but I wish to know if there is, was, or ever will be a movement towards to boycotting of the CPS systems? Here's my problem - as I understand it by paying Elecsa lots of money, ticking all the boxes and jumping through the hoops I am 'certified' to sign off my own work in domestic situations without the need to contact building control before commencement of the work blah blah blah. Got it. Now, on completion of a very large house here in sunny Devon I have been informed by the site manager that he wants me to give him all my BS7671 certs so that he can give them to the building inspector. The request is paired with the insistence that if I don't the house will not be issued an occupancy certificate and the client gets grumpy and tries to eat my head. Now on principal I have said no, because if I pay all this money etc surely my part of the building (part P) is essentially not being inspected by him? but by me - and certified by me direct to building control.
Now either Mr Building Inpector does have the right to ask for them, in which case I will boycott part P alone from now on, or he doesn't, in which case by now he should be aware of the system. How long do I have to work in yet another industry where seemingly pointless trade bodies, and certification bodies create massive confusion and cost and never really achieve anything?
Any comments would be gratefully read. B.

put the boot in on the lot of em....

dont expect to get anything out of elexsa other than a load of old crap...

just like we did at the recent elex show.....

 

[telectrix]

you coming ton ight, mate?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you coming ton ight, mate?

yes...i`l be setting off shortly mate..

 

[telectrix]

OK, see you later.

 

[amckay]

Yes, there is a movement to boycott the CPSs

I knew sparks were wanting to do it but didn't know if there actually was one. Can you send me some info please?

 

[trev]

I knew sparks were wanting to do it but didn't know if there actually was one. Can you send me some info please?

PM sent

 

[nickblake]

All you have to do is via your scheme they will notify BC and give the certificates to the house holder its there house so there certificate have found alot of builders just happen to loose the certificates if the builders want one let them have a copy for £25.00

 

[Guest77]

[h=2]Is Part P a lot of nonsense?[/h]

um yes, next question

 

[rugbyspark]

PM sent

Me too, if you don't mind. Thanks

 

[trev]

You can't recieve PMs mate, contact admin to get that lifted

 

[robsparky1975]

I have the usual annual assessment with elecsa tommorrow and will gripe once again why I have to waste half a day of my time unpaid to show someone my work and pay £500 for the privilage and get nothing in return.Im sure we will have an interesting discussion.

 

[trev]

Blah blah, mark of competence, upholding standards, blah blah, nationally recognised brand, doing all we can to help.....
More champagne Emma?

 

[multimick]

Do what I do ( I was in napit for 5 years before saw the light) just issue your own bs 7671 certs to the building inspector they will be fine this

 

[telectrix]

Do what I do ( I was in napit for 5 years before saw the light) just issue your own bs 7671 certs to the building inspector they will be fine this[/QUOTE
you must live in an area with that rare commodity... a sensible LABC. most flatly refuse your certs and insist you are a member of a scam.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Shropshire (last time I was in that loop) were still as Tel says, a bit... Stubborn.

 

[multimick]

you have done the work and issued a bs 7671 cert ,assuming you are competant and have city and guilds to prove it, I can't see the argument for refusing your cert (I deal with 3 councils and no problem)

 

[brucelee]

I will be contacting my local councils to enquire about this again as you say you do ork in wigan and they accept , before I joined a scam i asked and was informed £190 per job even though I had stated all my quals

Will try again and see for a laugh hope your right as it will save me many Bucks over each year

 

[Dic Penderyn]

I'm all for boycotting the CPS...they are all parasites sucking us dry! The NICEIC do not support the small business (sole trader) and have recently forced me to pay my annual fee all at once. When asked for a more affordable payment plan they insisted that they could only split it into 4 payments.

Since, I have not been able to pay they are now taking me to court. Thank you very much!

I'm contacting my LABC tomorrow with the hope of doing it direct. Boycott this massive SCAM now!

 

[Guest77]

I'm all for boycotting the CPS...they are all parasites sucking us dry! The NICEIC do not support the small business (sole trader) and have recently forced me to pay my annual fee all at once. When asked for a more affordable payment plan they insisted that they could only split it into 4 payments.

Since, I have not been able to pay they are now taking me to court. Thank you very much!

I'm contacting my LABC tomorrow with the hope of doing it direct. Boycott this massive SCAM now!

works out at 4 payments of 104 quid, not alot really, I agree it is still too much, however if you are running a business which needs part p registration and you cannot afford 104 quid every three months it may be time to pack it all in and get a job fella.

 

[Silly Sausage]

If Dic Penderyn's tale above, isn't enough proof that all the NICEIC et al is interested in is money, I don't know what is.
Show them a chronic installation by one of their paid up members and they couldn't give a FFFF.

 

[PEG]

If Dic Penderyn's tale above, isn't enough proof that all the NICEIC et al is interested in is money, I don't know what is.
Show them a chronic installation by one of their paid up members and they couldn't give a FFFF.

Fail to Find Feasible Future? ...and the money-lenders shall be cast from the temple...I'm Brian,and so's my wife:stooge_curly:

 

[7029 dave]

Part P, the downfall of this industry. Only MO.

 

[Engineer54]

Part P as a Building Reg isn't to blame, it's the parasitic profit orientated companies they allowed into our industry to administer it that's ALWAYS been the problem.

Those who without any consultation with long standing recognised bodies in the industry, or consideration for safety, (which was why they were created in the first place and laughably all beat the drum too, to this day) went on to irresponsibly invent/create the total nonsense title of ''Domestic Installer'' or as are better known as the Electrical Trainee. Not only did they allow these wannabes into the industry via the back door for purely monetary terms, they had the audacity to class time served and experienced fully qualified electricians with the SAME title!!

 

[Dic Penderyn]

There's a new amendment of the regs being forced upon us in January. The NICEIC insist all contractors buy a new copy of the regs?????

£70.00 x >500 contractors = £35,000.00

 

[Simonslimline]

There's a new amendment of the regs being forced upon us in January. The NICEIC insist all contractors buy a new copy of the regs?????

£70.00 x >500 contractors = £35,000.00

As a practicing electrician you should own the latest regs book regardless of what the NIC say.

The new BS7671 comes out in January but wont come in to effect until July.

 

[telectrix]

well, i'm not bloody well buying another. i still have red one on the van. the green stays in the office ( well, i call it that. it's just a man space in the conservatory ).

 

[ipf]

Part P as a Building Reg isn't to blame, it's the parasitic profit orientated companies they allowed into our industry to administer it that's ALWAYS been the problem.

Those who without any consultation with long standing recognised bodies in the industry, or consideration for safety, (which was why they were created in the first place and laughably all beat the drum too, to this day) went on to irresponsibly invent/create the total nonsense title of ''Domestic Installer'' or as are better known as the Electrical Trainee. Not only did they allow these wannabes into the industry via the back door for purely monetary terms, they had the audacity to class time served and experienced fully qualified electricians with the SAME title!!

Example.
A friend, who contracts for me regularly and has been a qualified electrician for 35 years, has recently been undergoing inspection by the NICEIC....to become a 'Domestic Installer'. He feels aggrieved, having to pay the fee to be recognized as such and would take great exception to being tagged alongside Electrical Trainee's, having been self employed for the last 10 years and NAPIT assured until 2 years ago, when his own work load didn't warrant continued membership. He served his time at Hawkers/British Aero and is no mean spark.
Agree entirely with what you say. It just goes to show what sort of system they've created when a tradesman of such standing is offered his ''L'' plates.......for the fee, of course.

 

[Dic Penderyn]

As a practicing electrician you should own the latest regs book regardless of what the NIC say.

The new BS7671 comes out in January but wont come in to effect until July.

I've been buying the regs books for years and remember when you could download the amendments which in my opinion made a lot of sense in terms of reduced cost. Having to buy a new copy when a new amendment comes out presents the question: "as this become another money spinning racket that we have to pay for"? How often do they change the electricity at work act?

 

[dingledong]

Soon it will be every year !

 

[Guest77]

I've been buying the regs books for years and remember when you could download the amendments which in my opinion made a lot of sense in terms of reduced cost. Having to buy a new copy when a new amendment comes out presents the question: "as this become another money spinning racket that we have to pay for"? How often do they change the electricity at work act?

Twice I can think of, 1989 being the last time

 

[Engineer54]

I've been buying the regs books for years and remember when you could download the amendments which in my opinion made a lot of sense in terms of reduced cost. Having to buy a new copy when a new amendment comes out presents the question: "as this become another money spinning racket that we have to pay for"? How often do they change the electricity at work act?

Has the penny only just dropped for you then?? The whole industry has become a money making Scam for just about everybody, even to the point of including The City and Guilds Institute and other once respected bodies!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

well, i'm not bloody well buying another. i still have red one on the van. the green stays in the office ( well, i call it that. it's just a man space in the conservatory ).

You have a conservatory??!!!

That's a bit salubrious for a Scouser innit?? mg_smile:

 

[telectrix]

hang on while i look sulab..salub.oh sod it.. posh.

 

[Badged01]

You have a conservatory??!!!

Aah, be careful with your definitions!! What is considered a conservatory in Newcastle is no more than the loo at the bottom of the garden in deepest Liverpool. Some even have toilet paper rather then torn up strips of newspaper hanging off a nail. But Im guessing Tel isnt from the posh end of town .....

 

[Guest111]

The whole thing stinks it's all a con,same as 3mm of exposed metal on a probe,and lots of other stuff like working live.The other day I was doing a quick job for my old man and removed a socket front with the power on,he started going mad about it still being live,I ended up telling him that if I wasn't capable of doing what I was doing safely with the power on then I had no right to be doing it any way.It's not money making schemes that are needed these days it's PROPER training and education,only then will we have safety.

 

[trev]

You have a conservatory??!!!

That's a bit salubrious for a Scouser innit?? mg_smile:

Ee means a greenhoose Fatha.