just come from job what,s wrong with this

[pete555]

hi everybody happy new year

just been to look at this

customer as had new DB fitted in extention
the electrician who is part p reg with scheme begining with N is also polish

from outside meter (no isolator)
through wall in 25mm tails angled up wall at approx 45 degrees with tails and earth to top of wall about 2.5mts across top of wall approx 500mm into DB

cables fatned in wall with all round band and plastered over in wall no protection
customer not happy contacted scheme and inspector visited

says it complies with regs and is not a safety issue

customer as hit tails with nail while putting up picture did not expect cable to be there



local supply authority just put power back on repaired fuse and gone never asked what caused it

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

customer hit tails!!!!,jesus, Im in the same scam and I know or a fact that if I ran tails unprotected out of the zone my area inspector Geoff would not be a happy bunny

 

[jaydee81]

does not comply with regs if the tails are burried in a wall they need rcd protecting and run in a safe zone or installed within earthed mechanical protection had this issue myself when plumber mate had drilled through tails as installer had just burried tails behind the plaster no one would have ever known they were there

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Tails in cavity?

 

[pete555]

i agree i am suspicious that the so called inspector was actually from the scheme as the electrician phoned them himself

dodgy

 

[Johnuk]

yea most likely not even part p

 

[pete555]

how many are


to some extent i don,t blame them

 

[oldtimer]

So why am I not surprised at this nice to see the Schemie system working to plan thing is European law that we signed up to say we must recognise his qualifications but who checks them a bit like a guy from Brazil who comes to Europe get ID from Portugal then he enters this country.

Also the polish workers have a good work ethic but a lot are not here to stay so its a fast buck and a mobile phone number disconnected in 5 years time and with your guy whats the odds of him getting caught so there will have to be several deaths before the Schemies start to do their job and police the system they created instead of selling courses. Final point though if someone was killed then it would take a test case to sue a Schemie for negligence for not doing Due Diligance

 

[Guest111]

As I have said before these foreign workers seem to be able to come over here and ply their trade with no checks yet if we went abroad,usa nz etc we have to prove competency before being allowed to work.The op proves why we need tighter controls on migrant workers after all we have enough trouble with our own chancers without importing them as well.

 

[oldtimer]

Phil the thing is its not in our culture to manufacture counterfit electrician grade cards because you can get caught out but it is in eastern Europe so does that mean we should pick on them well no but we should do more checks to stop it the only thing is the Schemies and the employment agents will play the "Dont as don't tell" routine as a get out of jail card.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

My m8 went to NZ two years ago , went from crappy health & safety mad UK company to a supervisor with van and good salary, based on his experience and mainly his C&G quals, he had to do NZ regs exam in London first

 

[Guest111]

My m8 went to NZ two years ago , went from crappy health & safety mad UK company to a supervisor with van and good salary, based on his experience and mainly his C&G quals, he had to do NZ regs exam in London first

proves my point exactly cheers Llan

 

[gigawatt]

surely the issue is with the scheme coming down and inspecting and saying nothing is wrong rather than where the installer comes from.

 

[telectrix]

but was it the scheme employee or a mate of the sparks in a suit? anyone who installs tails buried in plaster outside of prescribed zones, diagonally or without correct protection should be strung up with said tails. same goes for anyone who says there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[oldtimer]

Ok tell me of one Scheme who have went on a job and said sorry you failed we dont want you £700 a year as we have standards to uphold.

So in the real world thanks for your £700 and we will give you some pointers or sell you some courses and lets see how you go and you wonder why we have got into this state since the Schemies got involved . They will defend themselves but in reality its down to simple cause and effect

 

[Octopus]

the electrician who is part p reg with scheme begining with N is also polish

Is that wax type or country type?

 

[Guest111]

Ok tell me of one Scheme who have went on a job and said sorry you failed we dont want you £700 a year as we have standards to uphold.

So in the real world thanks for your £700 and we will give you some pointers or sell you some courses and lets see how you go and you wonder why we have got into this state since the Schemies got involved . They will defend themselves but in reality its down to simple cause and effect

Aye you have a valid point there,known people to need a second visit but as you say never known anybody to be shown the door,but as we all know in the words of that song, Its all about the money.

 

[timo1]

Bet it made a bang when the nail went in

 

[pete555]

probaly certainly frightned customer:66:

 

[telectrix]

teach him to use plastic nails in future.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

We took out a 2x 60A in series before Xmas in a top floor flat, nail thru the 16mm T&E, didn't hear a thing !, wasn't till about 3pm when I energised new board I realised we had no power and in downstairs flat also......

 

[Guest111]

makes you ask whether we should have 1000v insulated nails? as in all equipment should be 1000v insulated when working on or near live equipment,dragons den anyone?

 

[rattlehead85]

As I have said before these foreign workers seem to be able to come over here and ply their trade with no checks yet if we went abroad,usa nz etc we have to prove competency before being allowed to work.The op proves why we need tighter controls on migrant workers after all we have enough trouble with our own chancers without importing them as well.

Problem is mate it is now unfortunately a case of bolting the stable door after the horse has already bolted.
I know how the scam works with the foreign workforce coming over here. It is a total joke. The J.I.B need to wake up now instead of dishing out grading cards for fun like they have been upto now!!

 

[Engineer54]

Why not play the scam game and get an ELSCA or NAPIT registered electrician to do an assessment of this tails installation. Then send that paperwork off to the NICEIC head office asking, ...no Insisting on an explanation!! lol!!!

 

[KFH]

I am with E54. Better still get the report sent to Building Control as well and ask them what they are going to do about non compliance. Also ask the DNO what their length requirements are for tails without further protection.

Scams also need to be approved by someone, find out who and send a copy of the report to them as well and ask what they are going to do about it.

Its a lot of aggravation to do all the above which is probably what the scams rely on and they will probably want the customer to give the original "electrician" the opportunity of repairing it if anything at all.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

had to go sort out `Mr. Warsaw`s` mess out a few times.....one was a boiler feed that he couldn`t understand why the boiler wasn`t working (dropped neutral)...
another one was a disaster of a lighting circuit he had attempted..
this guy was being employed regular by landlords in a area of Leeds...

i wouldn`t have paid him with brass washers..

 

[oldtimer]

Yep was replacing a bathroom fan heater when I was asked to put a single socket in and I said no its not allowed. But in my country he said I stopped him and said yep but you cannot do it here. 2 months later got a call from a guy who just bought a house and he said can you check out the bathroom electrics where I found a single socket and a wall light switch just above the bath so I said jokingly did you buy this of one of our East European cousins and the reply was yes how did you know. So I am not racist as I see this as a culture thing and I cannot understand why they do this

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Yep was replacing a bathroom fan heater when I was asked to put a single socket in and I said no its not allowed. But in my country he said I stopped him and said yep but you cannot do it here. 2 months later got a call from a guy who just bought a house and he said can you check out the bathroom electrics where I found a single socket and a wall light switch just above the bath so I said jokingly did you buy this of one of our East European cousins and the reply was yes how did you know. So I am not racist as I see this as a culture thing and I cannot understand why they do this

they do it because they haven`t got a bloody clue....thats why old....
and i`m sick of em...
they come over here...do substandard and shoddy work thats not only non-compliant....but to be frank with you is also downrite dangerous at times...
so i suppose it didn`t dawn on this gymp that voltage can track across wet/steamy surfaces then?

 

[Octopus]

they do it because they haven`t got a bloody clue....thats why old....
and i`m sick of em...
they come over here...do substandard and shoddy work thats not only non-compliant....but to be frank with you is also downrite dangerous at times...
so i suppose it didn`t dawn on this gymp that voltage can track across wet/steamy surfaces then?

Its called European integration and / or dumbing down to the lowest level possible.

 

[oldtimer]

It was actually the guy who bought it (for his daughter) and he just felt something was wrong but was not sure but I found the socket was spurred off the bedroom socket and instead of a 2 gang light switch at the top of the stair ie 1 for stairs the other for the bathroom he punched through to the bathroom and made it 1gang in both hall and bathroom . The switch in the bathroom was 600mm above the bath. I explained to the customer that I have no problem them coming into the country as we are in the EU but I am concerned that they are bring their culture and bad habits with them and again I have no problem with that as long as it does not break our laws and regulations.

Also had a callout to another house where the MR16 lights in the bathroom were replaced with GU10 BY taking the transformer away and wrapping the flex around the GU10 pins

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It was actually the guy who bought it (for his daughter) and he just felt something was wrong but was not sure but I found the socket was spurred off the bedroom socket and instead of a 2 gang light switch at the top of the stair ie 1 for stairs the other for the bathroom he punched through to the bathroom and made it 1gang in both hall and bathroom . The switch in the bathroom was 600mm above the bath. I explained to the customer that I have no problem them coming into the country as we are in the EU but I am concerned that they are bring their culture and bad habits with them and again I have no problem with that as long as it does not break our laws and regulations.

Also had a callout to another house where the MR16 lights in the bathroom were replaced with GU10 BY taking the transformer away and wrapping the flex around the GU10 pins

yeah...its just not on is it...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

had one recently on an ECR where they had a macerator on a plugtop behind the bog...lol...

 

[Zeno]

hi everybody happy new year

just been to look at this

customer as had new DB fitted in extention
the electrician who is part p reg with scheme begining with N is also polish

from outside meter (no isolator)
through wall in 25mm tails angled up wall at approx 45 degrees with tails and earth to top of wall about 2.5mts across top of wall approx 500mm into DB

cables fatned in wall with all round band and plastered over in wall no protection
customer not happy contacted scheme and inspector visited

says it complies with regs and is not a safety issue

customer as hit tails with nail while putting up picture did not expect cable to be there

local supply authority just put power back on repaired fuse and gone never asked what caused it

Trading standards and LABC is a waste of time in many areas of the country after the cuts, they just refer you back to the Scheme, they are supposed to be policing their members but they don’t. This was identified by the DCLG Commons Select Committee inquiry into Part P, as a conflict of interest.

So pete555, which N was the Scheme NI or NA?, with complaints the real facts are often concealed, you get into who said what, when nothing is in writing.

Was the Scheme inspector from the Scheme or a subby, did they put their findings in writing to the customer, or was it a verbal brush off.

Is the householder prepared to complain again?

If so, then there are ways to resolve it, or at least show evidence that their complaints procedure is not fit for purpose, which also would help our trade.


I could help if you want.

 

[oldtimer]

Zeno thanks for that I got it on another post that I was being negitive towards Schemies and I also wrote to the Scottish Parliment committee who was looking into rental properties and I said the Schemies had a blatent conflict of interest with regards to advising the committee and selling course and registration.

Be interested if you have a link on this

 

[Zeno]

Zeno thanks for that I got it on another post that I was being negitive towards Schemies and I also wrote to the Scottish Parliment committee who was looking into rental properties and I said the Schemies had a blatent conflict of interest with regards to advising the committee and selling course and registration.

Be interested if you have a link on this

Here you go, clause 40 DCLG Commons Select Committeein query into Part P

40. We take some comfort from what the Minister said but we are not reassured that internal checks will uncover serious conflicts of interests. Concern has been raised about the potential conflict of interest that exists in the three approval authorities of the Competent Person Scheme under Part P. These Scheme operators obtain their finance from the very same companies whose work they judge and they are in competition with each other. We consider that the Government needs to put stronger controls in place over the Competent Person Scheme, to show that the Scheme is serving the best interests of the safety of the public. The current arrangements need greater independent supervision to offset the pressures to compromise safety standards and actively to seek out conflicts of interest and distortions of the market.

House of Commons - Building Regulations applying to electrical and gas installation and repairs in dwellings - Communities and Local Government Committee

The whole thing,

House of Commons - Building Regulations applying to electrical and gas installation and repairs in dwellings - Communities and Local Government Committee

 

[pete555]

your right

just spoke to customer
the scheme was NA so he thought but the cert i saw was a hand written one from a pad
he says the spark was recommended ( that worries me)
can find no memeber on the scheme list with the name Beckzowski
the so called inspector only gave him a verbal report on the visit
it ,s all adding up to a con

worried that he and is mate/mates have done other jobs this is in the chesterfield area
any one from there heard of the spark


customer as taken issue up with a solicitor at the moment

and of course the spark can no longer be reached

 

[shocking_eg]

your right

just spoke to customer
the scheme was NA so he thought but the cert i saw was a hand written one from a pad
he says the spark was recommended ( that worries me)
can find no memeber on the scheme list with the name Beckzowski
the so called inspector only gave him a verbal report on the visit
it ,s all adding up to a con

worried that he and is mate/mates have done other jobs this is in the chesterfield area
any one from there heard of the spark


customer as taken issue up with a solicitor at the moment

and of course the spark can no longer be reached

thats a polish electrician then :/

 

[Octopus]

your right

just spoke to customer
the scheme was NA so he thought but the cert i saw was a hand written one from a pad
he says the spark was recommended ( that worries me)
can find no memeber on the scheme list with the name Beckzowski
the so called inspector only gave him a verbal report on the visit
it ,s all adding up to a con

worried that he and is mate/mates have done other jobs this is in the chesterfield area
any one from there heard of the spark


customer as taken issue up with a solicitor at the moment

and of course the spark can no longer be reached

And the address on the invoice from the spark is?

 

[oldtimer]

Many thanks Zeno

Just to add I thought I was paraniod but reading your link on Part P re conflict of interests Steve Lomax stated what I have been saying for years that there is more incentives through sale not to reject any application for fear of losing the members fee.

Infact the more i read this the more I am surprised they have not been taken to court and as for self certification why do we need them hence why Edinburgh council accepts certification by enquiry ie tester calibration certs and a copy of your SJIB card on the certification because they dont want to get taken to court for forcing people to join a scheme that like the 17th has no legal standing

 

[Zeno]

your right

just spoke to customer
the scheme was NA so he thought but the cert i saw was a hand written one from a pad
he says the spark was recommended ( that worries me)
can find no memeber on the scheme list with the name Beckzowski
the so called inspector only gave him a verbal report on the visit
it ,s all adding up to a con

worried that he and is mate/mates have done other jobs this is in the chesterfield area
any one from there heard of the spark


customer as taken issue up with a solicitor at the moment

and of course the spark can no longer be reached

So as I mentioned, unless these things are in writing they get very murky quickly.

It looks like someone passing themselves off as an NAPIT member.

So where did the bit about it being inspected and told that it was OK come from, or was that arranged by this guy Beckzowski
as well.

If there are a number of these incidents, then I am sure NAPIT would want to contribute.