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Discuss No bathroom RCD in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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yellowvanman

Electrician's Arms
CCTV / Alarms
Solar Guru
Some numpty has put in a ceiling fan with a pull cord above a bath - ceiling is getting very damp and apparently water keeps dripping out, I guess due to condensation in the duct.

Customer (tenant) wants me to put in an in-line fan, and as it doesn't have a fan isolator switch, add an appropriate switch.

Old Wylex board, TNCS.

My thinking is what I've been asked to do doesn't infringe current regs. Fan is outside the bathroom, my only query is if I put in a pull isolator switch for the fan, is that required to be RCD protected? If so, can put a switch outside the bathroom just below the ceiling above the door. In which case no concealed wiring and not in a special location.

Thoughts? I would prefer to put in a pull switch! Have also suggested the tenant tells the landlord that CU upgrading would be a good idea.
 

Flanders

Regular EF Member
Is this not a job for the landlord to organise ?why is the tenant paying for this , i thought there was now a reg for cables running over a special location (the loft space) nead to be rcd protected as well
 

davesparks

Forum Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Why would you fit an isolator in the bathroom for a piece of equipment which is not in the bathroom?

Isolators should ideally be placed adjacent to the equipment they isolate.

The means of isolation for an inline fan should be next to it, not in another room! Personally I fit a 4pin click flow socket to plug the fan in to, it makes repair/replacement easier
 

yellowvanman

Electrician's Arms
CCTV / Alarms
Solar Guru
davesparks:
The reason for the fan isolator was to turn it off at night, to reduce noise etc. (kids in house)

Flanders:
The regs say cables running THROUGH a special location need RCD protection (not over)
 
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yellowvanman

Electrician's Arms
CCTV / Alarms
Solar Guru
Is this not a job for the landlord to organise ?why is the tenant paying for this , i thought there was now a reg for cables running over a special location (the loft space) nead to be rcd protected as well
Did I say the tenant was paying for it? Seemed logical that tenant organises it, tells landlord costs and if agreeable organises work being done at a convenient time!
 

davesparks

Forum Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
davesparks:
The reason for the fan isolator was to turn it off at night, to reduce noice etc. (kids in house)

Flanders:
The regs say cables running THROUGH a special location need RCD protection (not over)
So really you want a functional switch, it'll be no use as an isolator for the reasons above (unless it's properly lockable)
 

Flanders

Regular EF Member
Sorry my mistake it was because you said the tenant was the customer and i always see the customer is the person paying for the work :) any way im guessing you want to put a switch in for the fan so you can turn it on or off seperate to the light, as said just check about cables running in loft above bathrooms ,
Edit

Just read your post above sounds like you dont nead an rcd then :)
 
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sean_ork

Regular EF Member
Why not fit a humidistat instead of the on/off switch - there's then no option not to turn on the fan when it's required, which might account for the damp ceiling.
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Why not fit a humidistat instead of the on/off switch - there's then no option not to turn on the fan when it's required, which might account for the damp ceiling.
It'll need rcd protection then for the humidistat. Something needs doing to the ducting, to get rid of the condensation.
 

kenny7askew

Regular EF Member
may also be worth thinking about a pull switch with neon built in so they can tell when its on as some in line fans are really quiet
 

andyb

Electrician's Arms
Why do you need a lockable isolator for a bathroom fan????
You don't if the fan is by the switch or in the same room.
You need to be able to lock it in the off position if the fan is in a different location, say loft for instance.
 

sparksburnout

Electrician's Arms
If an isolator is not located adjacent to/ in a position where it is in the control of the person working on the equipment then it needs to be lockable.
So you think that every isolator that is not in the positions you are stating, in a domestic setting, is lockable then?? You guys don't do much domestic stuff obviously. If there is any doubt, just isolate it as the CU FFS.
 

davesparks

Forum Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
So you think that every isolator that is not in the positions you are stating, in a domestic setting, is lockable then?? You guys don't do much domestic stuff obviously. If there is any doubt, just isolate it as the CU FFS.
I don't think they are, but if you want to comply then they should be.
Bs7671 makes no distinction between domestic and any other installation (except the idiotic non combustible reg)

Fitting fan isolator switches above doors for online fans is ugly and pointless. If you want a useful isolator fit it next to the fan, preferably in the form of a plug and socket connection for easy disconnect and removal.
If the customer wants a ready means of switching it off for a switch next to the light switch or at socket level adjacent to the door. Fitting them at high level just looks ugly and puts them out of reasonable reach for a functional switch.

I can't stand the blindly copying what other people do mentality of some 'electricians' who seem to think that fan isolators must be at high level/above doors just because they've seen other people do it.
I've even had one slagging me off for not fitting a high level isolator for a wall mounted fan which was controlled by its own seperate switch on a 2g plate switch outside the bathroom!
 
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