No cpc on lighting and no neutral continuity on kitchen ring

[Toneyz]

This link is from the horses mouth

18th edition changes - IET Electrical - https://electrical.----------/bs-7671/18th-edition-changes/

The only thing that jumps out to me about lighting circuits is the requirements for RCD's protecting circuits with luminaries.

I just had a look at that the only thing I could see on Chapter 54 was regarding earth electrodes and protective conductor when more than one source,so I don't know where this so-called new reg comes from

 

[sham]

That just says recommended so not an absolute. Also that link is to a private company so has as much weight as helium...

IET Forums - Fuseboard Change with no cpc in lighting - https://www.----------/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=64580

This link is from the horses mouth

18th edition changes - IET Electrical - https://electrical.----------/bs-7671/18th-edition-changes/

The only thing that jumps out to me about lighting circuits is the requirements for RCD's protecting circuits with luminaries.

The impact of the 18th Edition (BS 7671:2018) – Chapters 41, 46, 53 and Regulation 542.2.2 - https://electrical.----------/wiring-matters/issues/66/the-impact-of-the-18th-edition-bs-76712018-chapters-41-46-53-and-regulation-54222/

 

[Octopus]

IET Forums - Fuseboard Change with no cpc in lighting - https://www.----------/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=64580

The impact of the 18th Edition (BS 7671:2018) – Chapters 41, 46, 53 and Regulation 542.2.2 - https://electrical.----------/wiring-matters/issues/66/the-impact-of-the-18th-edition-bs-76712018-chapters-41-46-53-and-regulation-54222/

The second link is from last year and the proposed changes .

My link above is a summary of what made it into the 18th edition

 

[Strima]

I must be going blind as I can't see anywhere it stating I have to rewire a circuit because of no CPC???

 

[Toneyz]

Well, I still can't see it.

 

[Darkwood]

@sham

Please do not mix up offended with insulted, been offended because a member has stated a valid point is not reason to call it an insult, I prefer you would respond in a more appreciative manner when you are been corrected or if you disagree then show why you consider your stance to be correct.

 

[alasdairp]

Reading much IET literature and all the above comments, I am still convinced that as long as all the switches and luminaires are plastic there is no need for a CPC on existing old lighting circuits. After all, that effectively makes it a simple "double insulated" circuit, no different from all the hand-held(!) tools and appliances that are sold now for kitchens, gardens and DIY tools (e.g.) which only have a two-core phase and neutral lead. It would be a nonsense to allow (indeed require!) them to be used, and hand-held when in use, and not allow the same electrical situation when the wiring is hidden and out of reach of the person using it. That would be a complete contradiction in safety.

 

[Pete999]

Reading much IET literature and all the above comments, I am still convinced that as long as all the switches and luminaires are plastic there is no need for a CPC on existing old lighting circuits. After all, that effectively makes it a simple "double insulated" circuit, no different from all the hand-held(!) tools and appliances that are sold now for kitchens, gardens and DIY tools (e.g.) which only have a two-core phase and neutral lead. It would be a nonsense to allow (indeed require!) them to be used, and hand-held when in use, and not allow the same electrical situation when the wiring is hidden and out of reach of the person using it. That would be a complete contradiction in safety.

Appreciate your hypothesis Mate but it only needs one home owner to start sticking Metal decorative switches and fittings up, on a circuit without a cpc, and that blows your thoughts out of the water.
I don't think or believe that a circuit without a cpc, with plastic switches etc, is the same as a Double insulated hand tool, nice idea, but not for me I'm afraid.

 

[telectrix]

Reading much IET literature and all the above comments, I am still convinced that as long as all the switches and luminaires are plastic there is no need for a CPC on existing old lighting circuits. After all, that effectively makes it a simple "double insulated" circuit, no different from all the hand-held(!) tools and appliances that are sold now for kitchens, gardens and DIY tools (e.g.) which only have a two-core phase and neutral lead. It would be a nonsense to allow (indeed require!) them to be used, and hand-held when in use, and not allow the same electrical situation when the wiring is hidden and out of reach of the person using it. That would be a complete contradiction in safety.

the only caveat to that would be to ensure that the faceplate screws did not make contact with metal back boxes. back in the 60's this was achieved by the use of nylon lugs.where a metal back box has been replaced by one with metal lugs, then you have unearthed exposed metal parts.

 

[Pete999]

the only caveat to that would be to ensure that the faceplate screws did not make contact with metal back boxes. back in the 60's this was achieved by the use of nylon lugs.where a metal back box has been replaced by one with metal lugs, then you have unearthed exposed metal parts.

Remember the wooden switch back boxes Tel?

 

[telectrix]

Remember the wooden switch back boxes Tel?

yep, and lead sheathed twin with the lead sheath as cpc.(only on rip-outs though. never installed it. would have liked to, though).

 

[Pete999]

yep, and lead sheathed twin with the lead sheath as cpc.(only on rip-outs though. never installed it. would have liked to, though).

I can remember being shown how to install wooden back boxes, and those 13 Amp sockets that didn't have a back box as such, more like a patress type thing, I used to call them Castle sockets they were MK, and a right booger to fit.

 

[telectrix]

before my time., bearing in mind that i came into the trade a lot later than you did.my early years were in TV repair and Alarms.was not till 1985 that i dived into sparking.

 

[Muzza115]

I’ve sorted the neutral fault. Was one of the legs back to the board strangely. I’ve disconnected both ends made safe and reduced to a 20 amp breaker. I’ve also swapped the metal fittings for pendants. The assessor had to cancel the visit and rescheduled for next Saturday. So gave me time to sort things. Did it yesterday morning.

 

[telectrix]

I’ve sorted the neutral fault. Was one of the legs back to the board strangely. I’ve disconnected both ends made safe and reduced to a 20 amp breaker. I’ve also swapped the metal fittings for pendants. The assessor had to cancel the visit and rescheduled for next Saturday. So gave me time to sort things. Did it yesterday morning.

have you dissed both the L and E of that leg from last socket and the CU, in order to make the circuit a true radial?

 

[Wilko]

Appreciate your hypothesis Mate but it only needs one home owner to start sticking Metal decorative switches and fittings up, on a circuit without a cpc, and that blows your thoughts out of the water.
I don't think or believe that a circuit without a cpc, with plastic switches etc, is the same as a Double insulated hand tool, nice idea, but not for me I'm afraid.

Agree Pete. The double insulation section 412.1.3 says it "shall not be applied to any circuit where (some things) or where a user may change items of equipment without authorisation."

 

[Octopus]

I’ve sorted the neutral fault. Was one of the legs back to the board strangely. I’ve disconnected both ends made safe and reduced to a 20 amp breaker. I’ve also swapped the metal fittings for pendants. The assessor had to cancel the visit and rescheduled for next Saturday. So gave me time to sort things. Did it yesterday morning.

So you've now got a kitchen on a 20A radial - is this suitable given the appliances they have?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

So you've now got a kitchen on a 20A radial - is this suitable given the appliances they have?

He'll soon get a call if it's not.
Not entirely sure why post 154 attracted a dumb from a member. The solution of converting a ring to a radial may or may not be ideal depending on circumstances, same with removing class 1 fittings from the lighting circuit. But in many circumstances it IS a practical solution to a problem, nothing dumb about that at all.

 

[Muzza115]

There’s only 3 Sockets on the radial. Fortunately the kitchen also has another 32A ring powering dishwasher and washing machine.

 

[Muzza115]

Yes, cable disconnected both ends.