Discuss No cpc on lighting and no neutral continuity on kitchen ring in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Muzza115

Active EF Member
Messages
30
Location
Buckinghamshire
Hi All,
I recently replaced an old rewirable fuse board for metal split load rcd board. However on testing prior to replacement I noted that one of the lighting circuits doesn’t have a cpc. I’ve put this in the EIC for the new board that no cpc for lights, advised client that needs rewiring and advise against metal fittings accessories etc,is this the right course of action to take? They do already have metal fittings on this circuit, Is rcd protection enough to cover this? Also the kitchen ring has no continuity on the neutral conductor, I’ve had all the accessories off to find it but can’t, I’m assuming the break maybe in a buried joint box as the kitchen is an old extension. What’s the best course of action to take regarding this please?
Thanks
 

Andy78

Respected Member
Messages
8,395
Location
Kingston upon Hull
You should at the very least removed the metal fittings before energising the circuit after the board swap. You have now left a potentially dangerous situation live and provided a certificate for it.

Likewise with the broken neutral conductor, this should have been rectified before being energised.
 
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Reactions: DPG

Taylortwocities

Electrician's Arms
Messages
2,225
Location
Oxfordshire
If you have replaced a consumer unit you should know the answers to those questions!
An RCD is not considered as a catch-all, get you out of jail card. The client should not have any metal fittings in that circuit.

Re the ring. You should identify where the break is and split the ring into two radials with a 20A MCB on each radial. Or identify between which two sockets the break has occurred and run a new length of cable bypassing the problem.

Yes I know, I live in an ideal world …
 

DPG

Respected Member
Messages
5,214
Location
S Yorkshire
Agree with above - you can't leave things as they are. And you haven't issued a satisfactory EIC. The installation is not safe, and your name is on the paperwork unfortunately.
 
Last edited:

Pete999

Forum Mentor
Messages
21,833
Location
Northampton
Hi All,
I recently replaced an old rewirable fuse board for metal split load rcd board. However on testing prior to replacement I noted that one of the lighting circuits doesn’t have a cpc. I’ve put this in the EIC for the new board that no cpc for lights, advised client that needs rewiring and advise against metal fittings accessories etc,is this the right course of action to take? They do already have metal fittings on this circuit, Is rcd protection enough to cover this? Also the kitchen ring has no continuity on the neutral conductor, I’ve had all the accessories off to find it but can’t, I’m assuming the break maybe in a buried joint box as the kitchen is an old extension. What’s the best course of action to take regarding this please?
Thanks
Muzza115 you have replaced the CU correct? I would have tested prior to changing the board, any faults found, that couldn't be fixed easlily, then report to the customer that you can't change the board until the wiring faults have been rectified, charge for your time so far. Well that's what I would do, looks like your mistake was to swap the board anyway, imo. See DPGs post
 

telectrix

Scouser and Proud.
Respected Member
Messages
60,336
Location
cheshire/staffordshire
agree with above posts.faults should be found and rectified before changing CU. problem is customer won't want to pay. get jack the lad from the local pub to bodge it. as long as it works, who cares.
 
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Muzza115

Active EF Member
Messages
30
Location
Buckinghamshire
I have noted on the EIC that these need rectifying. And the client is a family friend who will listen to my advice. I was also going to use this job to show NICEIC inspector for domestic installer, as is the only one close enough that fits the criteria Would you advise that I do these remedials before the inspection, will he out right tell me to do one or accredit me once I prove the remedials are done? Thanks
 

Andy78

Respected Member
Messages
8,395
Location
Kingston upon Hull
I have noted on the EIC that these need rectifying. And the client is a family friend who will listen to my advice. I was also going to use this job to show NICEIC inspector for domestic installer, as is the only one close enough that fits the criteria Would you advise that I do these remedials before the inspection, will he out right tell me to do one or accredit me once I prove the remedials are done? Thanks
This matters not. You can't just not comply with the regs and say you informed the customer, and it's up to them to book rectifications in.
 

Pete999

Forum Mentor
Messages
21,833
Location
Northampton
I have noted on the EIC that these need rectifying. And the client is a family friend who will listen to my advice. I was also going to use this job to show NICEIC inspector for domestic installer, as is the only one close enough that fits the criteria Would you advise that I do these remedials before the inspection, will he out right tell me to do one or accredit me once I prove the remedials are done? Thanks
Not sure Muzza what the assessor will say, but posts 4, 5 and 6 say it all. Like I said your mistake was to swap the board in the first place without recyifying the faults, may be if you explaine your error you could get lucky, sorry Mate just sying like it is. Good luck anyway.
 
E

elsparko

I have noted on the EIC that these need rectifying. And the client is a family friend who will listen to my advice. I was also going to use this job to show NICEIC inspector for domestic installer, as is the only one close enough that fits the criteria Would you advise that I do these remedials before the inspection, will he out right tell me to do one or accredit me once I prove the remedials are done? Thanks
too late, youre going to jail

main-qimg-57230a16c2dd13401881614523b25690-c.jpg
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
I wouldn't be issuing an EIC with those issues ..................

ALL my CU estimates include this caveat:

"NB: If problems are detected during the fuseboard change additional work may be required. Such issues and associated costs will be discussed with you, prior to being implemented"

Never had this challenged, never been refused the go ahead to fix issues.

On the point of the no earth in a lighting CPC these are worth reading:

Best Practice Guides - https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/electrical-professionals/best-practice-guides/

In this specific case its the first one you need to download and read thoroughly

Its a good way to learn and if you don't heed this advice and use this install to be assessed by a scheme, you will no doubt fail.


Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear.
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
I kind of expected to be torn a new one. The assessment is this Saturday. I’ll try and get it sorted this week. Thanks
Saturday? Really
 

Strima

Electrician's Arms
Messages
3,528
Location
St Neots
How would an RCD protect against an earth fault when there's no earth path on the lighting circuit?
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
How would an RCD protect against an earth fault when there's no earth path on the lighting circuit?
Strangely I've done fault finding on a lighting circuit (no CPC) which was tripping a RCD ...................

Mice had chewed completely through a switch drop cable, including the copper and the connection was "making" as a spark! - and when it sparked the RCD tripped..
 

Dillb

Electrician's Arms
Messages
719
Location
Nottingham
I was also going to use this job to show NICEIC inspector for domestic installer, as is the only one close enough that fits the criteria
Could you let us know how this goes as be interesting to see their stance on installs such as this.
 
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Muzza115

Active EF Member
Messages
30
Location
Buckinghamshire
I’ll keep you posted on the outcome. I’ll speak to client and hopefully they agree and I’ll change the metal fittings for plastic pendants. Also rectify neutral fault.
 
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elsparko

I’ll keep you posted on the outcome. I’ll speak to client and hopefully they agree and I’ll change the metal fittings for plastic pendants. Also rectify neutral fault.
how you going to manage that with handcuffs on?
 

Pete999

Forum Mentor
Messages
21,833
Location
Northampton
I kind of expected to be torn a new one. The assessment is this Saturday. I’ll try and get it sorted this week. Thanks
Nobody has ripped into you Muzza, just explaining the error of your ways, we can't all be perfect, don't take it to heart. Learn by your mistakes, bet you won't do it that way again, so lesson learnt.
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
I give Muzza 10 out of 10 for coming back with responses ...........

Wonder if hes read the best practice guide yet?
 

Pete999

Forum Mentor
Messages
21,833
Location
Northampton
Agreed, I take on board all advice Pete. I meant the from the assessor Saturday.
I’ll read the guide shortly Murdoch.
Worth printing out and explaining to the Assessor what you have learnt, you never know, coming clean sometimes goes in your favour. worth a punt if you ask me.
Please let us know how you get on.
 
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Muzza115

Active EF Member
Messages
30
Location
Buckinghamshire
Do the NICEIC use ‘non conformities’? I’m guessing this wouldn’t apply in this case anyhow, would it be more for a lack of paperwork?
 
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Muzza115

Active EF Member
Messages
30
Location
Buckinghamshire
Do the NICEIC use ‘non conformities’? I’m guessing this wouldn’t apply in this case anyhow, would it be more for a lack of paperwork?
 
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Muzza115

Active EF Member
Messages
30
Location
Buckinghamshire
I understand that Andy but what I meant was would it be an out right fail or are you given the opportunity to rectify with a revisit? Or possibly just photographic proof that the remedials have been done without a revisit? Thanks
 
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elsparko

I’m gonna hand myself in elsparko. Hangings too good for me.
I understand that Andy but what I meant was would it be an out right fail or are you given the opportunity to rectify with a revisit? Or possibly just photographic proof that the remedials have been done without a revisit? Thanks
youre taken straight to jail after a good seeing to from dale winton
 

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