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is it because of my experience at fault finding or the fact that no one on here can come up with a step by step suggestion that would solve the issue.

Why do you keep saying no one on here can guide you to solving the issue. Several member have told you exactly what to do and how to break it down. You surely can't expect anyone to say 'it's the bit of cable under the kitchen floor' when you are the only one who is actually on site.

What are you wanting?
 
To be fair as recent as @telectrix post 98 is one of many that is the correct procedure . No one is trying to belittle you.
If you are over tired and stressed you may not be able to think clearly.
 
In
I'm not sure why you would say it's embarrassing ?

is it because of my experience at fault finding or the fact that no one on here can come up with a step by step suggestion that would solve the issue.
other than get someone in who could solve the problem yet not explaine how to solve the problem if that makes sense
.
And by saying this I'm not implying that people on here don't know their stuff just that fault finding by it's very nature is sometimes complicated.

and again I really do appreciate all the suggestions and helpful comments.
OMG what a complete stramash. 7 pages of getting nowhere. I’ve a 1st year apprentice that could have had this solved. OP - if your qualified and competent why do you need a step by step description of what to do? You’ve had seriously good help and advice on this thread. One can only assume you don’t know what you are doing given the comments made. Splitting a ring final and leaving the ocpd as it was. Your posts suggest you’ve been back to the house lots of times?!

How come you only go at night? Are you a vampire?!
 
It's unusual to get 2 separate faults in the same cicuit at the same time both causing similar issues, there's most likely a common problem.

Don't take the "Nothings been done recently that might have caused it" as 100% true.
It could be something not as obvious as a shelf recently fixed and a screw through the cable(s), like the fridge pushed hard against the wall.

If it is both legs from the C.U that have faults and if both travel the same route from the C.U, it could be something like a sharp edge of steel capping (if it's capped) pressing on both Cables from original install.
And the capping has now got to the point of just touching conductors to a greater or lesser degree.
Or nicks in both cables from install and damp getting in under the plaster.
 
OMG what a complete stramash. 7 pages of getting nowhere. I’ve a 1st year apprentice that could have had this solved. OP - if your qualified and competent why do you need a step by step description of what to do? You’ve had seriously good help and advice on this thread. One can only assume you don’t know what you are doing given the comments made. Splitting a ring final and leaving the ocpd as it was. Your posts suggest you’ve been back to the house lots of times?!

How come you only go at night? Are you a vampire?!

Love the (Scottish) word stramash - never heard it before but will start using it if I may, despite being a southerner ;)
 
is it because of my experience at fault finding or the fact that no one on here can come up with a step by step suggestion that would solve the issue.
other than get someone in who could solve the problem yet not explaine how to solve the problem if that makes sense

You refer to solving a problem, yet you have not identified the problem(s) as yet, despite suggestions on here

Maybe you should reconsider Tony ‘s offer to assist you ......

Fault finding effectively takes many years of experience .....something you can’t pick up from the internet.

As for basics, you never answered my question about the end to end readings so how do you know you have a continuous ring across the 3 cores ?

Your approach can be best described as haphazard and I trust you are not charging by the hour ......
 
Attached is a scan of a map of a circuit I drew out. None of my initial readings pointed me towards what was going on but socket Zs readings were not as I would expect from an rfc (plus a few other things ringing alarm bells). Splitting the 'ring' at various points also produced some unexpected results so I disconnected every accessory on the circuit, joined r1 to r2 on one leg of the 'ring' at the db and went round every point to see where I had continuity. It started ok as I had a reading of 0.27 Ohms on dining room 3, however when I connected the single outgoing set of conductors I had continuity on Lounge 3 and dining 4 so a concealed junction with lounge 3 being a spur. Dining 5 and lounge 4 when (single) outgoing conductors were connected revealed further concealed junctions feeding spurs. Dining 2 revealed a concealed jb with a spur from a spur. Lounge 5 revealed the end of the 'ring', a concealed spur to annexe 2 and a spur to lounge 6 which in turn fed two spurs plus another spur feeding a spur. Basically I had multiple concealed interconnects and multiple concealed spurs.
First thing is all this was discovered before doing a board change during my pre board change testing.
If I had an ir (tripping) problem I would have done exactly the same but would have ir tested the whole circuit each time I introduced (reconnected) an accessory.
Not every instance can be answered on an internet forum. A methodical approach is what is required together with a visualisation of what you are dealing with. You have actually been given a lot of very good advice based on experience, sometimes though you really do have to go right back to basics.
 

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I had a similar scenario at a mate's house last month: he'd been changing switches, and got intermediates, two-ways and singles completely messed up, and had mixed up two separate multi-way lighting circuits in the same enclosures. Nothing made sense: the behavior of his lighting was hilarious.
With multiple concurrent faults there's sometimes too much going on to hold the logic in your head.

In that case I find the best way is to STOP. To give up trying to be clever and to disconnect EVERYTHING. All accessories off, all cables neatly disconnected. Then get pen and paper, a long flying lead and trace the exact route of every cable. Draw it as you go. Then do continuity and IR on all sections, logically and consistently.

It's then a great feeling when the 'A-Ha!' point is reached, which it will be.
Good luck :)
Ref my post #73, repeated above.

As others have said again and again, I think you really do need to take everything apart.

The mate in my above post who couldn't figure out his lighting is a retired Naval Commander, and currently a bloody airline pilot. But he couldn't figure out some simple wiring. Fault-finding can be confusing: sometimes it's difficult to see what is staring you in the face. It's never anything to be embarrassed about, and a second pair of eyes is always useful.
 
Hi - with an mcb now tripping I’m placing a bitcoin bet on a trapped L behind one of the faceplates :) .
No sorry forget this peice of info! RCD would still trip if it was a live or phase conductor as well as the MCB. You are correct that if it is a Phase conductor on the out going/load side of a FCU this would only show when switched but would still trip the RCD.
No I think there is possibly an overload issue going on when all the FCUs are on and all the plugs in and switched on which depending on where the devide in the circuit that you split is could potentially have a fire risk.
So as Charlie said. you need to go back and return the ring back to the original state (with new link where fault found) and then break the circuit down and conduct complete rimg main test then start breaking it down to identify exactly where the fault is. Out of curiosity did you ask the first question every spark should ask when attendind a sudden unexplainable fault "What/Where have you/someone/anyone been doing recently DIY/work wise"
most of the time this narrows it down to the offending culprit.
 
Hello everyone
Really sorry for taking so long to get back to the forum after receiving so many replies. Work got in the way and now on holiday.
But upshot of the problem turned out to be two fold on first leg we pulled some cable up through the floor and found a small hole in the outer sheathing not a bite mark and no nails in sight so cut this out and replaced with a small section..
We are still running the kitchen as a radial as the other leg is impossible to get at without taking the floor up which the customer does not want to do and although I'm a small bloke even I cannot get under the joists..
We have suggested running the leg along the outside wall and back into the cellar at a later stage if he wants.

So basically this is just a thank you for all of your help when really all that was needed was some time, patience and some logical thinking
 
tell customer that the floor ( or part of it) needs to come up to locate the fault and maybe replace the faulty section. other wise he can call a magician.
 
Hello everyone
Really sorry for taking so long to get back to the forum after receiving so many replies. Work got in the way and now on holiday.
But upshot of the problem turned out to be two fold on first leg we pulled some cable up through the floor and found a small hole in the outer sheathing not a bite mark and no nails in sight so cut this out and replaced with a small section..
We are still running the kitchen as a radial as the other leg is impossible to get at without taking the floor up which the customer does not want to do and although I'm a small bloke even I cannot get under the joists..
We have suggested running the leg along the outside wall and back into the cellar at a later stage if he wants.

So basically this is just a thank you for all of your help when really all that was needed was some time, patience and some logical thinking
Hello everyone
Really sorry for taking so long to get back to the forum after receiving so many replies. Work got in the way and now on holiday.
But upshot of the problem turned out to be two fold on first leg we pulled some cable up through the floor and found a small hole in the outer sheathing not a bite mark and no nails in sight so cut this out and replaced with a small section..
We are still running the kitchen as a radial as the other leg is impossible to get at without taking the floor up which the customer does not want to do and although I'm a small bloke even I cannot get under the joists..
We have suggested running the leg along the outside wall and back into the cellar at a later stage if he wants.

So basically this is just a thank you for all of your help when really all that was needed was some time, patience and some logical thinking
What is tripping?
 
:disrelieved::disrelieved:
tripping is something we did back when L.S.D. was all the rage. :eek::eek::eek::eek:.
Showing your age now Mate, oh sorry all age related stuff is in the mind, mind you my mind is fuddled with all that tripping and it wern't an OCPD tripping either!!!!!!!!!?????/:imp::cool::dizzy::disrelieved::disrelieved::grinning::kissing::kissing: Did a great deal of tripping in my later years at work Russia, the US, Canada, far and middle East need I go on? did my head in I can tell you, the gatt was a revalation though, grew in the hedgsrows of Sanna
 
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