Plastic amendment 3 CU's

[Bobster]

You spy correctly.

You know there not really suitable for that right?

 

[NDG Elecs]

You know there not really suitable for that right?

Yes am aware of different views on these. MOD banning them etc etc. The circuit has approx 4 light fittings on it chewing around one and a half amps. I'll take a chance.

 

[GB.Kayak]

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables. See Figure 6.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.

How the hell are we meant to infer that from the actual wording of the regulation?

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i. have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii. be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date.

It's wide open for the lawyers to argue about.

It would be much clearer if they had also added
iii) All openings to be sealed against the spread of fire
iv) non-flame propagating wiring must be used
v) smoke and/or heat alarm to be installed in vicinity of the consumer unit
vi) fire extinguisher to be located within easy reach of the consumer unit
vii) original installer to check the connections every month at his/her own expense
viii) stop working in domestic premises and leave it to those with less skill and experience

I do not think that you are supposed to make the inference that you allude to ... I suspect that the final wording of the regulation bears only superficial comparison to the original text. Therefore the first paragraph that you quote is out of step with the original intent behind the regulation.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Fit one of these in every home never catch fire ............might have to reconfigure the downstairs under stairs cupboard a bit like moving the Christmas Decs, the ornament Great aunt Agnes gave them and the Dyson but never catch fire

 

[Harwoodandy]

View attachment 29042

Another piccy. One thing I noticed was the space at the bottom of the breakers where busbar goes is a little tight. So a good idea to remove the din rail with MCBs on it to make sure all bus bar connections are sitting properly. Cannot see in enough if the din rail stays put.

Hello mate, The CU you have used would not be compliant. Needs non combustible cover and blanks see here for Wylex offering; http://www.electrium.co.uk/Wylex_Metal.pdf

 

[NDG Elecs]

Hello mate, The CU you have used would not be compliant. Needs non combustible cover and blanks see here for Wylex offering; http://www.electrium.co.uk/Wylex_Metal.pdf

Thanks for the info fella. The DB in the picture has a metal hinged lid on it out of shot. If the blanking covers need to be metal then so do the MCBs, RCDs and main switch!

 

[shanky887614]

Thanks for the info fella. The DB in the picture has a metal hinged lid on it out of shot. If the blanking covers need to be metal then so do the MCBs, RCDs and main switch!

if the lid is clossed its not classed as external so it complies acording to leaflet

 

[NDG Elecs]

if the lid is clossed its not classed as external so it complies acording to leaflet

I hope so. According to Hager it does so I'm happy! I get the feeling that I won't fit another one til January, I think other clients will opt for insulated til then. Not 100% as to whether the rubber insert on the tails gland complies though! Will have to read up.

 

[rustynails]

Used the M40 Wiska sprint glands.

These are good, but bloody expensive at the moment. The price of a new consumer unit keeps on rising, making the domestic market even more fun to get work because the consumer is only concerned with price.

 

[Leesparkykent]

These are good, but bloody expensive at the moment. The price of a new consumer unit keeps on rising, making the domestic market even more fun to get work because the consumer is only concerned with price.

I can get a fully populated wylex dual RCD amendment 3 board for £106 plus the above gland for £11 including VAT, so just shy of £120 which I don't think is to bad tbh.

 

[stevethesparks]

I wonder if the likes of B&Q, Screwfix etc will replace their best selling £50 fully populated high integrity CU's with metal by Jan 2016? Seems unlikely.
I think I'll just hang fire until the 11th hour and see what progression is made.
All seems like over the top nonsense to me at the moment, particularly as non ferrous metal boards have only been suggested as an example.

 

[GB.Kayak]

I wonder if the likes of B&Q, Screwfix etc will replace their best selling £50 fully populated high integrity CU's with metal by Jan 2016? Seems unlikely.
I think I'll just hang fire until the 11th hour and see what progression is made.
All seems like over the top nonsense to me at the moment, particularly as non ferrous metal boards have only been suggested as an example.

Unfortunately, existing boards can only claim fire retardency or self-extinguishing characteristics according to the standards; they are combustible according to the 960 °C glow wire test. It is only when the source of heat is removed that they self-extinguish and thus pass the standard by the 'alternative' criteria which enabled the use of thermoplastic enclosures in the first place.

 

[Octopus]

I wonder if the likes of B&Q, Screwfix etc will replace their best selling £50 fully populated high integrity CU's with metal by Jan 2016? Seems unlikely.
I think I'll just hang fire until the 11th hour and see what progression is made.
All seems like over the top nonsense to me at the moment, particularly as non ferrous metal boards have only been suggested as an example.

Why would they? They can still be installed in commercial premises and also bear in mind there are still muppets around installing single up front RCD units or 16th ed boards!

 

[IzzyS]

And there are still muppets installing CU's without doing any testing :-( Just been to quote for some minor works at a property. 10 months ago I lost out on the board change and some other work. Householder showed me the "certificate".

They have both the top copy and the carbon one. No serial number, no contractor address, no schedule of test results at all. And gems such as "means of earthing : rod by front door. Ra N/A" No PFC, No Ze. Illegible scrawl for design. Illegible scrawl for construction, no signature for I&T. Lost the will to live before I got half way through the schedule of inspections. There's a 16mm T&E sub-main (hopefully) crimped and taped hanging in free air about a foot away from the new board, which has missing blanks and exposed bus-bar.

So yes, B&Q will probably carry on selling their £50 specials. It is not their responsibility to ensure the correct installation. In the same way that they can sell bricks, sand and cement which some cowboy can use to build a 6 feet high 1/2 brick retaining wall.

Edit. They were happy with the cert - they had some paperwork so must be OK. Joe Public, even if they know they should have a cert, have no interest, or clue, about what information it should contain.

And their "electrician" is registered with a scheme.

 

[NDG Elecs]

These are good, but bloody expensive at the moment. The price of a new consumer unit keeps on rising, making the domestic market even more fun to get work because the consumer is only concerned with price.

Managed to get the glands for £13.00 each through a mate in wholesale. I think some customers will be happy to pay the extra for increased piece of mind. I am less averse to metal clad than I was a few weeks back. Might even change my signature haha!!

 

[edexlab]

Earlier on when I first read these threads , I was like others thinking about other options available rather than the knee jerk reaction to insist on steel enclosures and one idea I mentioned which has never come up again was the suggestion of fitting intumescent material of the same type as used on fire rated downlights into CU's as a way of containing any flames should a fire occur.
I know you can buy this material for use in sockets and other enclosures, so if it's good enough for the downlights then why not CU'S? ??
Surely something along these lines would be better than what is being implemented, as steel CU's can still have fires caused by poor workmanship ,also just look at any existing ones they've usually got several openings where knockouts weren't blanked off, by lazy or incompetent people this will continue to happen!
The root cause is poor workmanship and that is the issue that should have been tackled first !
But Imo the same shoddy installers will carry on and there will be CU fires and probably a few deaths or injuries from electric shock from people touching live casings!

 

[Dave OCD]

And by the time someone wires a 10.8kW shower as well as a cooker etc into one of these monstrosities, it'll be so well sealed that the heat build up within will just have nowhere to go....

 

[bigspark17]

I think now that am3 is going to happen with regard to non combustable cu's (or cupbords very unlkkely to happen) lets as a trade embrace this as it is whats happening so get on with it.! I dont think fitting a M/C cu to a competant spark is beyond any1 worth theyre compentance.! I personally like yhe idea or M/C cu's in domestic, fed up of seeing swa poorly terminated and plastic cracked, flimsly din rails.! Feedback from alot of my customers (domestic) as non rlectrically minded people say they see a metal board as stirtidier more durable and safer and have no problem with the extra.! My opinion, im sure its not every1's tho

 

[edexlab]

The issue isn't the competant installers being capable, after all, most competant electricians will have fitted a MC 3 phase board......

Its the incompetants who cause these problems! !!

 

[Dave OCD]

Only today I had to connect a new boiler supply into a dual RCD unit fitted less than two years ago, [no certificate anywhere and it was rough as rats inside, neutrals and CPC,s not in the right order and the incoming tails were loose ! Sadly the enclosure material won't do anything about this kind of thing.