Plastic amendment 3 CU's

[Tim]

Saw this in screwfix. Im skeptical abs plastic is amd 3 compliant. has anyone bought one?

 

[Octopus]

For LAP = CRXP

Thats a no from me!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Lap is shyte but I like the idea of ABS being compliant

 

[trev]

I don't think I'll happily fit one of these things but if a manufacturer with a decent reputation comes out with one..........

 

[amlu]

open the box, have a look what the manual says,
play with it with a blow torch if you wish, its all grey business in there anyway, if
a numpty builder will install a metal box and something will get messed in there the
fuses will melt anyway...

 

[Plonker 3]

If a manufacturer is happy to claim it complies with amendment 3 then thats good enough for me.

 

[snowhead]

Interesting that it's a locally printed A4 sheet with the statement with no LAP logo.
It doesn't say compliant on the boxes, tho' I'm sure they must be.

All LAP C.U's appear to be ABS flame retardant;

http://www.NoLinkingToThis/search?search=lap+consumer+unit

 

[andyb]

Only looking on my phone, but the leaflet doesn't seem to show what amendment it complies with.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Only looking on my phone, but the leaflet doesn't seem to show what amendment it complies with.

It does say amendment 3 but I had to zoom in.

 

[Adam W]

Interesting that it's a locally printed A4 sheet with the statement with no LAP logo.
It doesn't say compliant on the boxes, tho' I'm sure they must be.

All LAP C.U's appear to be ABS flame retardant;

Lap Consumer Unit - Search Results | NoLinkingToThis

I was thinking that as well.
Perhaps it complies because the amendment hasn't yet come into force, and then won't be retrospective.
Anyone with a large stock of plastic consumer units needs to get rid of them before January otherwise they will most likely be out of pocket.

 

[cprfenom]

Great
9 Feb 2015
ByTelectrix
, Belfast

" Great offer what's not to like about this, it's full of rcd's so come on its a no brainier. If you need a cheap consumer unit this is the one to get. Screwfix has come through with the goods for me again very pleased have been tellin other friends in the trade "



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Taken from screwfix.... Tel I didnt think you would like LAP

 

[GB.Kayak]

Saw this in screwfix. Im skeptical abs plastic is amd 3 compliant. has anyone bought one?

Damien Skelton produced an excellent post on this subject which brought together, in one place, the text from the relevant standards that relate to this issue. I did not agree with his conclusion on the matter ... flame retardent DOES NOT EQUAL non combustible! In my opinion, the 'poster' as originally written is at best misleading ... with the 3 added ... well that just takes the biscuit in my opinion ... should be referred to Trading Standards for miss-selling!

 

[telectrix]

Great
9 Feb 2015
ByTelectrix
, Belfast

" Great offer what's not to like about this, it's full of rcd's so come on its a no brainier. If you need a cheap consumer unit this is the one to get. Screwfix has come through with the goods for me again very pleased have been tellin other friends in the trade "



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Taken from screwfix.... Tel I didnt think you would like LAP

sorry mate. got nothing to do with that. some paddy is taking my name in vain.

 

[uksparks]

Lap as a brand do make some good stuff, but there's not s chance I would be fitting a LAP consumer unit. I think as for the question of is it or isn't it, if in doubt just fit metal.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Lap as a brand do make some good stuff, but there's not s chance I would be fitting a LAP consumer unit. I think as for the question of is it or isn't it, if in doubt just fit metal.

The only thing I have made by lap is an extension lead.

 

[Knobhead]

sorry mate. got nothing to do with that. some paddy is taking my name in vain.

You’re a scoucer, doesn’t that make you a paddy?

 

[Mike Blair]

What i heard is all the new amendment 3 boards are metal. And the plastic boards will have to be in a fire proof enclosure.

 

[shanky887614]

What i heard is all the new amendment 3 boards are metal. And the plastic boards will have to be in a fire proof enclosure.

not true, basically you could make your own fuseboard out of charcoal and as long as it is in a fire proof enclosure its fine.


the standard hasnt really changed much, the only thing that has changed is it is more strictly enforced on the manufacturers (i will beleive it when i see it)

the reg doesnt state metal so plastic complies

 

[Leesparkykent]

not true, basically you could make your own fuseboard out of charcoal and as long as it is in a fire proof enclosure its fine.


the standard hasnt really changed much, the only thing that has changed is it is more strictly enforced on the manufacturers (i will beleive it when i see it)

the reg doesnt state metal so plastic complies

well this is another whole debate lol.

 

[shanky887614]

well this is another whole debate lol.

well nothing in the regs say your not allowed plastic and it only states to take manufacturer's instructions under advisement.

its my opinion that a badly installed metal ccu is no safer than a plastic board and as such i believe it complies and as that is my opinion and i have taken the destructions into account so its my understanding it complies with the regs

 

[Leesparkykent]

What i heard is all the new amendment 3 boards are metal. And the plastic boards will have to be in a fire proof enclosure.

Mike here's a good article to read

Consumer units - IET Electrical

 

[Mike Blair]

thanks guys

 

[NDG Elecs]

I fitted my first metal clad board last week. I think I actually prefer them to be honest. The knock outs are easier to get out than the plastic ones for a start. I did think it would look too industrial in a domestic setting but it looks fine n dandy.

 

[telectrix]

from leesparky's link:

In this case, however, the manufacturer would have to provide suitable evidence to support the claim of non combustibility, and it is not presently clear what criteria would be used to judge the non combustibility of a material other than non-ferrous metal.

so does this mean that aluminium or other non-ferrous metals comply?

 

[Pete999]

I don't think I'll happily fit one of these things but if a manufacturer with a decent reputation comes out with one..........

I agree Trev LAP = CLAP as someone else so eloquently put it

 

[Octopus]

What i heard is all the new amendment 3 boards are metal. And the plastic boards will have to be in a fire proof enclosure.

Ah ha, this can of worms.

The regs for this don't come in until 1st Jan '16 so we have a few more months before the muppets resolve it satisfactorily!

 

[Tuttle]

I fitted my first metal clad board last week. I think I actually prefer them to be honest. The knock outs are easier to get out than the plastic ones for a start. I did think it would look too industrial in a domestic setting but it looks fine n dandy.

I haven't looked at the AM3 metal boards yet - do they provide some way of fire sealing the cable entries or is that left up to the installer to work out?

I notice the the IET seem to be saying that the installer must fire seal cable entries (from Jan next year), which sounds difficult to me, particularly in situations where lots of cables enter the back of the CU.

Out of interest, did you fire seal cable entries / did your board provide some way of sealing rear knock out holes?

 

[uksparks]

Fire foam, a good squirt all round the board, ensure you fill the board with it too, that's what the hole is for on the side, filling it up!

 

[uksparks]

I fitted my first metal clad board last week. I think I actually prefer them to be honest. The knock outs are easier to get out than the plastic ones for a start. I did think it would look too industrial in a domestic setting but it looks fine n dandy.

Have you got a photo?

 

[andyb]

Fire foam, a good squirt all round the board, ensure you fill the board with it too, that's what the hole is for on the side, filling it up!

And then enclose it in a fire proof enclosure, job done.

 

[telectrix]

Have you got a photo?

taken with a metalclad, non-combustible camera. a russian zenit would comply.

 

[NDG Elecs]

I took some photos. Not very good ones though. Used the M40 Wiska sprint glands. I positioned the gland slightly off where I should have which meant had to use a blank next to the main switch. Will remember for next time. Only had one knock out to remove...bit of grommet strip on it and used fire sealant around all cables. Jobs a good un.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Another piccy. One thing I noticed was the space at the bottom of the breakers where busbar goes is a little tight. So a good idea to remove the din rail with MCBs on it to make sure all bus bar connections are sitting properly. Cannot see in enough if the din rail stays put.

 

[NDG Elecs]

I haven't looked at the AM3 metal boards yet - do they provide some way of fire sealing the cable entries or is that left up to the installer to work out?

I notice the the IET seem to be saying that the installer must fire seal cable entries (from Jan next year), which sounds difficult to me, particularly in situations where lots of cables enter the back of the CU.

Out of interest, did you fire seal cable entries / did your board provide some way of sealing rear knock out holes?

I used fire mastic liberally at the knock out. I can see this being an issue where the cables are rear entry through a great big chasm.

 

[Bobster]

I took some photos. Not very good ones though. Used the M40 Wiska sprint glands. I positioned the gland slightly off where I should have which meant had to use a blank next to the main switch. Will remember for next time. Only had one knock out to remove...bit of grommet strip on it and used fire sealant around all cables. Jobs a good un.

View attachment 29041

Is that an insulated butt crimp on solid core I spy?

 

[IzzyS]

I haven't looked at the AM3 metal boards yet - do they provide some way of fire sealing the cable entries or is that left up to the installer to work out?

I notice the the IET seem to be saying that the installer must fire seal cable entries (from Jan next year), which sounds difficult to me, particularly in situations where lots of cables enter the back of the CU.

Out of interest, did you fire seal cable entries / did your board provide some way of sealing rear knock out holes?

The regs don't stipulate that the openings need be fire sealed, IMHO.

This discussion hosted by Mark Coles, the IET technical guru, talks about it, and the conclusion is there is no change to IP ratings, and no requirements for intumescent seals (view from 13m:15s to 15m:00s, if you can be bothered watching it all)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJvLT7uwO58

 

[Tuttle]

The regs don't stipulate that the openings need be fire sealed, IMHO.

This discussion hosted by Mark Coles, the IET technical guru, talks about it, and the conclusion is there is no change to IP ratings, and no requirements for intumescent seals (view from 13m:15s to 15m:00s, if you can be bothered watching it all)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJvLT7uwO58

I'll have a watch of that later.

I agree that the regs don't say that openings need to be fire sealed, which may be why board manufactures don't seem to have considered this, but this IET Wiring Matters article: http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/55/-files/consumer-units-pdf.cfm?type=pdf (originally posted by Leesparkykent in another thread) says that the installer must seal openings.

I guess that all this confusion will be sorted out by the end of the year :mad2:

 

[IzzyS]

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables. See Figure 6.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.

How the hell are we meant to infer that from the actual wording of the regulation?

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i. have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii. be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date.

It's wide open for the lawyers to argue about.

It would be much clearer if they had also added
iii) All openings to be sealed against the spread of fire
iv) non-flame propagating wiring must be used
v) smoke and/or heat alarm to be installed in vicinity of the consumer unit
vi) fire extinguisher to be located within easy reach of the consumer unit
vii) original installer to check the connections every month at his/her own expense
viii) stop working in domestic premises and leave it to those with less skill and experience

 

[NDG Elecs]

Is that an insulated butt crimp on solid core I spy?

You spy correctly.

 

[Octopus]

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables. See Figure 6.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.

How the hell are we meant to infer that from the actual wording of the regulation?

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i. have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii. be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date.

It's wide open for the lawyers to argue about.

It would be much clearer if they had also added
iii) All openings to be sealed against the spread of fire
iv) non-flame propagating wiring must be used
v) smoke and/or heat alarm to be installed in vicinity of the consumer unit
vi) fire extinguisher to be located within easy reach of the consumer unit
vii) original installer to check the connections every month at his/her own expense
viii) stop working in domestic premises and leave it to those with less skill and experience

As clear as mud (as usual for the IET)

When Tony Cable was waffling on at Elex @ Sandown Park he was "stating that all the cable exits would need to be fire rated too"

I suggested it would be easier to fit a mains smoke alarm in the same location - to which he stated it wasn't an option - me thinks it was because they hadn't thought of it.

I could take all this seriously if the internal components and breakers were all made to a higher standard, but they are not so its a metal box around cheap crxp.

 

[Bobster]

You spy correctly.

You know there not really suitable for that right?

 

[NDG Elecs]

You know there not really suitable for that right?

Yes am aware of different views on these. MOD banning them etc etc. The circuit has approx 4 light fittings on it chewing around one and a half amps. I'll take a chance.

 

[GB.Kayak]

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables. See Figure 6.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.

How the hell are we meant to infer that from the actual wording of the regulation?

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i. have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii. be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date.

It's wide open for the lawyers to argue about.

It would be much clearer if they had also added
iii) All openings to be sealed against the spread of fire
iv) non-flame propagating wiring must be used
v) smoke and/or heat alarm to be installed in vicinity of the consumer unit
vi) fire extinguisher to be located within easy reach of the consumer unit
vii) original installer to check the connections every month at his/her own expense
viii) stop working in domestic premises and leave it to those with less skill and experience

I do not think that you are supposed to make the inference that you allude to ... I suspect that the final wording of the regulation bears only superficial comparison to the original text. Therefore the first paragraph that you quote is out of step with the original intent behind the regulation.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Fit one of these in every home never catch fire ............might have to reconfigure the downstairs under stairs cupboard a bit like moving the Christmas Decs, the ornament Great aunt Agnes gave them and the Dyson but never catch fire

 

[Harwoodandy]

View attachment 29042

Another piccy. One thing I noticed was the space at the bottom of the breakers where busbar goes is a little tight. So a good idea to remove the din rail with MCBs on it to make sure all bus bar connections are sitting properly. Cannot see in enough if the din rail stays put.

Hello mate, The CU you have used would not be compliant. Needs non combustible cover and blanks see here for Wylex offering; http://www.electrium.co.uk/Wylex_Metal.pdf

 

[NDG Elecs]

Hello mate, The CU you have used would not be compliant. Needs non combustible cover and blanks see here for Wylex offering; http://www.electrium.co.uk/Wylex_Metal.pdf

Thanks for the info fella. The DB in the picture has a metal hinged lid on it out of shot. If the blanking covers need to be metal then so do the MCBs, RCDs and main switch!

 

[shanky887614]

Thanks for the info fella. The DB in the picture has a metal hinged lid on it out of shot. If the blanking covers need to be metal then so do the MCBs, RCDs and main switch!

if the lid is clossed its not classed as external so it complies acording to leaflet

 

[NDG Elecs]

if the lid is clossed its not classed as external so it complies acording to leaflet

I hope so. According to Hager it does so I'm happy! I get the feeling that I won't fit another one til January, I think other clients will opt for insulated til then. Not 100% as to whether the rubber insert on the tails gland complies though! Will have to read up.

 

[rustynails]

Used the M40 Wiska sprint glands.

These are good, but bloody expensive at the moment. The price of a new consumer unit keeps on rising, making the domestic market even more fun to get work because the consumer is only concerned with price.

 

[Leesparkykent]

These are good, but bloody expensive at the moment. The price of a new consumer unit keeps on rising, making the domestic market even more fun to get work because the consumer is only concerned with price.

I can get a fully populated wylex dual RCD amendment 3 board for £106 plus the above gland for £11 including VAT, so just shy of £120 which I don't think is to bad tbh.