Quick Question

[GarryJ]

Evening all,

Starting a kitchen tomorrow - it is currently all stripped out and a new install being put in. She has asked for the low level single sockets that are being installed for appliances not to be controlled from a DP switched fused spur above worktop position. Is this a regulation to have these installed for isolating low level socket? Regs book is in office. Im just that used to putting them in as standard for all the obv reasons but she strangely asked for them to be left out. I tried talking her into them for all the right reasons but shes stuck on the idea

Thanks in advance for any clarification

 

[MDJ]

sorry what,s the problem?

 

[Adam W]

Could you put them all in a grid instead, ie one DP switch, one fuse carrier per socket?

 

[GarryJ]

Could put them in a grid Adam, never suggested that to her mind you. Do you know if the regs state a DP switch must be put in a kitchen when low level sockets/spurs are supplying appliances

Ta

 

[GLENNSPARK]

mount surface boxes in adjacent cupboards for appliances Garry.....
you can then feed the plugtops round the back of units...and into the outlets....

- - - Updated - - -

not everyone likes FCUs at worktop height...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

if its TT...then go for double pole...if TN...then single pole switching is OK actually this is for orygin of circuits....
sorry guys..;

 

[Octopus]

Sockets and isolators need to be accessible.

Accessible means it can be got at without moving anything - so sockets behind washing machines, fridges, etc are a no, no.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Sockets and isolators need to be accessible.

Accessible means it can be got at without moving anything - so sockets behind washing machines, fridges, etc are a no, no.

they will be ok in adjacent units though Murdoch....

 

[monkeyelectric]

I done a rewire a while back, isolators for sockets above worktop, socket below in a place where i was told the dishwasher was going and i went back earlier to move the cooker switch for the second time as they've only recently designed the kitchen after all the electrics and plumbing were put in! to find that the knobs have moved the dishwasher and left the socket where it was so its now plugged in behind a solid cupboard, wtf!! Why do people do it! I hope the fuse goes so i can go back with a chainsaw to access it

 

[Octopus]

they will be ok in adjacent units though Murdoch....

As I stated "accessible"

 

[GLENNSPARK]

thing is with appliances as well...is when someone decides to start putting outlets directly behind em...they rarely go back fully because of the plugtop....
if your going to put outlets adjacent to appliances...then why the hell dont people just leave a loop ready....come back on second fix and if the kitchen installers have had owt about them they will have drilled through the backs of cupboards and pulled the twins through ready for termination into outlets mounted on surface boxes.....seeeemples

 

[Toonlad]

thing is with appliances as well...is when someone decides to start putting outlets directly behind em...they rarely go back fully because of the plugtop....
if your going to put outlets adjacent to appliances...then why the hell dont people just leave a loop ready....come back on second fix and if the kitchen installers have had owt about them they will have drilled through the backs of cupboards and pulled the twins through ready for termination into outlets mounted on surface boxes.....seeeemples

How many times have the kitchen fitters left your cable behind the unit. How many times has the customer said your not putting a socket in my unit lol. Then theres the intergrated units flex outlest and fused grid plates.

then theres the first fix, and the plaster has cut the excess on your cables that you planned to bring through the unit. Some kitchen fitters and plasters i just loathe, but you cant be there watching them all the time.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

How many times have the kitchen fitters left your cable behind the unit. How many times has the customer said your not putting a socket in my unit lol. Then theres the intergrated units flex outlest and fused grid plates.

then theres the first fix, and the plaster has cut the excess on your cables that you planned to bring through the unit. Some kitchen fitters and plasters i just loathe, but you cant be there watching them all the time.

well....we had the advantage of working with some ....well dare i say it half decent kitchen fitters.....the worktop wouldn`t have been fitted by the time we second fixed so if they had left owt in the service void we could always grab it...
john (another kitchen fitter) on the other hand.....he insisted on buying ikea carcasses which were a load of crap i must tell you....
hardboard backs that `wobbled` everytime you plugged owt into an outlet mounted onto it and no service void...so he levelled and fixed some scant onto the wall to back his units off....
the amount of times that tw*t caught n trapped our cables.......
i hated him....i felt like punchin him everytime i saw him.....

 

[richy3333]

Evening all,

Starting a kitchen tomorrow - it is currently all stripped out and a new install being put in. She has asked for the low level single sockets that are being installed for appliances not to be controlled from a DP switched fused spur above worktop position. Is this a regulation to have these installed for isolating low level socket? Regs book is in office. Im just that used to putting them in as standard for all the obv reasons but she strangely asked for them to be left out. I tried talking her into them for all the right reasons but shes stuck on the idea

Thanks in advance for any clarification

Yes it is a madatory requirement as per Scottish Building Standard 4.8.5. Kitchens often need a building warrant also which have to be signed off by NICEIC or Select electricians to comply.

4.8.5 - where sockets are concealed, such as to the rear of built in appliances, or obstructed by built in furniture, separate switching should be provided in an accessible position, to allow appliances to be isolated.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Yes it is a madatory requirement as per Scottish Building Standard 4.8.5. Kitchens often need a building warrant also which have to be signed off by NICEIC or Select electricians to comply.

4.8.5 - where sockets are concealed, such as to the rear of built in appliances, or obstructed by built in furniture, separate switching should be provided in an accessible position, to allow appliances to be isolated.

so if you mount surface boxes to the backs of cupboards....then their not obstructed by built in furniture...are they...

 

[Adam W]

so if you mount surface boxes to the backs of cupboards....then their not obstructed by built in furniture...are they...

No but they're obstructed by the appliance, therefore need means of isolation other than pulling the plug out, which will involve hauling the appliance out. I don't have the reg number to hand but accessories should be fixed to the fabric of the building wherever accessible, and not to cupboards.

 

[stuartcourt]

the cupboard adjacent to the appliance

 

[Adam W]

If you put an accessory at the back of a cupboard how is it any more accessible than being at the back of the appliance where you might expect it, if the accessory is hidden behind a load of tins of beans, boxes of washing powder, bottles of bleach, concealed bins etc?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

No but they're obstructed by the appliance, therefore need means of isolation other than pulling the plug out, which will involve hauling the appliance out. I don't have the reg number to hand but accessories should be fixed to the fabric of the building wherever accessible, and not to cupboards.

no their not ...
Adam, read my other posts mate...

 

[stuartcourt]

I dont know how big your cans of beans are but mine do not weigh as much as a washing machine :29:I also would prefer spurs above but as said customer does not want this, you can put it at front of cupboard if you like, some do I dont