Skeleton board? How do I get around this?

[ppelec100]

Been asked to move, remove and add some sockets the kitchen and I’ll need to add a circuit for an electric hob.
Looked at the board and it’s one of those Wylex skeleton boards (image attached). Doesn’t look like much room in there to get a new consumer unit installed. I’ve never had to deal with replacing these boards.

Main question
What’s the solution?
I was thinking of bring the cables to out above the cupboard if I can and put the new CU there. Cables that aren’t long enough I will be able to extend from inside the cupboard above the meter

Curious hypothetical questions
1. If there were spare ways would it be allowed to add a new circuit to a 3036 fuse providing that the circuit meets the max Zs values?

2. What would stop you in terms of regs from adding to a 3036 if the cable didn’t need additional protection?

3. Can you make additions or alterations to existing circuits which are fed by 3036 fuses? Or do they need to be upgraded?

Thanks for any answers in advance

 

[buzzlightyear]

What would stop you in terms of regs from adding to a 3036 if the cable didn’t need additional protection?

You are designing it, so what do you think.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Looking at that board no rcd protection on any circuits, so you are down a stream with out a paddle, adding a new circuit SPD to start or other, wylex scelaton board needed.

 

[westward10]

Your profile states you are a trainee, is this still the case?
Your questions suggest you are not competent to be undertaking these works.

 

[ppelec100]

You are designing it, so what do you think.

Other regulations mentioning the circuits needing Rcd protection, being in special locations, etc etc. but what I’m asking is, if none of these applied, would you be able to still install / add or alter a circuit by a 3036 fuse.

Looking at that board no rcd protection on any circuits, so you are down a stream with out a paddle, adding a new circuit SPD to start or other, wylex scelaton board needed.

Don’t think I’d be able to fit another board in there…

 

[ppelec100]

Your profile states you are a trainee, is this still the case?
Your questions suggest you are not competent to be undertaking these works.

I’ve finished my apprenticeship, but I’ve still got my testing and inspection to get through.

 

[westward10]

I’ve finished my apprenticeship, but I’ve still got my testing and inspection to get through.

Your questions suggest you don't have a comprehensive understanding of BS 7671 and these works are probably beyond your level of competence.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Your profile states you are a trainee, is this still the case?

I had typed in is profile nowt came up on him trainee.Dan the man needs to sort this out, and put a T next to the trainees profiles.

 

[ppelec100]

Your questions suggest you don't have a comprehensive understanding of BS 7671 and these works are probably beyond your level of competence.

Which is why I am asking so to gain a better understanding...

I have come out of my apprenticeship only a few years ago and I am still learning as I go, surely you can't expect me to know the regs inside out to be competent enough to carry out a board change and alter a ring circuit? I've stated that I will be upgrading the board anyways. I always try and check the regs for any questions i have and where i get stuck i ask. ive always been taught to ask questions, isnt it better to ask than to never know?

 

[buzzlightyear]

, surely you can't expect me to know the regs inside out to be competent enough to carry out a board change and alter a ring circuit? I've stated that I will be upgrading the board anyways. I always try and check the regs for any questions

That is why it is their, under standing the regs it's like pulling your teeth out some times, are am I doing the correct things.
but asking small questions will go a long way, if you asking for advice on how to do it, then you might ask, some one to work with you a guide you.

 

[ppelec100]

That is why it is their, under standing the regs it's like pulling your teeth out some times, are am I doing the correct things.
but asking small questions will go a long way, if you asking for advice on how to do it, then you might ask, some one to work with you a guide you.

most of the time i can understand it but a lot of the other the times it drives me up the wall with all the fancy wording i have to reread it a few times. but yeah that's a fair point you've made.
for the skeleton board question its more of a physical installation question/opinion as opposed to a how to question. i also said what i was planning to do which i'm sure is the best solution but just wanted someone else's second opinion... i wasn't asking how to change a consumer unit, that would be crazy.

the questions about the bs3036 fuses were only hypothetical which popped in my curious mind as i was writing about changing the board.

i've had a look through the regs and on reg 132.16 it says no addition or alteration temporary or permanent to be made to existing installation unless is has been ascertained that the rating and condition of any existing equipment including that of distributor will be adequate for the altered circumstances.

433.1.202 where the protective device is semi enclosed 3036 compliance of iii of 433.1.1 is afforded if its rated current (In) does not exceed 0.725 times the current carrying capacity (Iz) of the lowest rated conductor in the circuit protected....

so this means for example if i am using a 1.5mm cable and the installation method is clipped direct that cable could take 20amps... 20amps x 0.725 = 14.5amps, the 3036 fuse cannot be greater than a 14.5 (In) so therefore the next fuse down will be a 5amp fuse.

If the cable was clipped direct, didn't need mechanical protection and the cable/circuit didn't need additional protection bs3036 fuse would be still good to use hypothetically?
correct me if i am wrong... but this is why i asked hypothetically, i dont plan to install using 3036 fuses, but i wanted to know if its still considered correct to install. from what i can see in the regs, its still deemed as acceptable.

 

[buzzlightyear]

but this is why i asked hypothetically, i dont plan to install using 3036 fuses, but i wanted to know if its still considered correct to install. from what i can see in the regs, its still deemed as acceptable.

You can still use them, but have got them to hand, plus some body might put in the wrong fuse wire, their is a lot of wholesaler will not have them, that would mean you would have to use a machanical ones.
It's your judgement how you design and install, it is better to be over cautious, then being taken to the gallows.
You did that wrong.

 

[pc1966]

I'm not sure you will find a new BS3036 fuse for sale anywhere.

But the plug-in replacement MCBs are easy to get and whenever I encounter a rewirable board I would replace the lot with the breakers for:

• The "wrong size wire" buzz mentioned leading to poor/no circuit protection
• Avoiding the extra 0.725 margin needed for 3036 style fuse rating (not needed for BS88, etc)
• The (less common now) case that usually it was the lights circuit going, at night (when you need lights), and then some poor sod who is almost certainly elderly with poor eyesight having to try and fit new 5A fuse wire in the dark.
• And of course someone inserting a refreshed fuse in to a live board, still on fault, because they didn't see/read the warning to switch off before changing fuses

Realistically almost any new addition today in a domestic situation is going to need RCD protection. You could add a small DIN enclosure and RCD to make use of a spare way in such a board, but often a new CU is a far better solution. Then you are often faced with having to extend the old cables to a new site nearby as those Wylex boards are really small by modern CU standards and so were often squeezed in to stupidly small corners and cupboards.

 

[westward10]

First thing you need to do is test the circuit which is being altered, in fact if you are replacing the consumer unit test the lot. Check main protective bonding is adequate. Any faults or inadequacies you find is additional works.
If the circuits are wired using sheathed cables then a standard consumer unit can be fitted, if not and it is singles (most likely) you need a mantle consumer unit.

wylex FALNM806L 8 Way Meter Cabinet Consumer Unit Main Switch 100A

8 Way Meter Cabinet Consumer Unit Main Switch 100A

electricalwholesalers4u.com

Don't forget most of these works are notifiable.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Price for a new board and a full EICR before starting anything.

 

[ppelec100]

Thank you for these answers guys they’ve really scratched the itch my mind was having

I’ll have to get someone to test and sign the work off for me since I haven’t got my 2391 yet and not part of a CPS. Working towards that

 

[davesparks]

What’s the solution?

Replace the old skeleton board with a new skeleton board.

 

[Dustydazzler]

With what looks like only 5 circuits you can probably put a little 5 way garage consumer unit in there if money is tight