Re-wire or upgrade earth bonding?

[ketanc]

Hi All

My first post so please bare with me. I am a landlord and currently refurbishing a property. I called in a local electrician to get a quote on having a kitchen extractor fitted, and he basically noted the following things:

- ALL wiring (sockets, switches, lights) in the property is two-core red and black wires. Being clueless when it comes to this, my description of it is copper wire quite thick multi strand inside red and black sleeving, which in turn is inside a white sheath.
- Water stopcock is not earth bonded
- Gas inlet pipe & consumer unit are the only two things that are earth bonded
- None of the sockets/switches/lights have any sort of earth wire running to them whatsoever

He has said I need a full re-wire of the property, with an attached price tag of course. I wanted to ask the guys on this forum if it is permissible to have an electrician come in and run earth bonding cable externally (i.e. in trunking), to and from all points in the house, all running back to the earth block below the consumer unit?

As a landlord, obviously, I will need an NICEIC approval certificate before my property can be let - will this method pass, or is it a straight up "hell no"?

If (as I suspect), it is a NO, please could I have some guide prices for a full house re-wire, so I know I'm not being taken for a mug! - it is a 3 bed semi detached. Enter another problem -- my "project manager" (if you could call him that!), has already had the house re-plastered. This was all done while I was out of the country! So chasing the wall is not an option, surface boxes and trunking is the only option!

Room details:

Entrance hall - 3x light fixtures, 1x double socket, 1x upstairs/downstairs landing light switch
Lounge - 1x ceiling rose, 3x double sockets
Lounge Cupboard - 1x light switch, 2x bulb holders
Downstairs toilet - 1x ceiling light, 1x light switch
Kitchen - 5x double sockets, 1x light switch, 1x electric oven switch, 1x boiler switch
Upstairs landing - 1x ceiling rose, 1x upstairs landing light switch
Upstairs bathroom - 1x electric shower 8.5kw, 1x electric shower pull cord switch, 1x bathroom pull cord light switch, 1x timer extractor fan
Bedroom 1 - 1x double socket, 1x light switch, 1x ceiling rose
Bedroom 2 - 2x double socket, 1x light switch, 1x ceiling rose
Bedroom 3 - 2x double socket, 1x light switch, 1x ceiling rose

My apologies for the in depth post, just thought I'd provide as much info as possible!

Thank you in advance for all replies and help received!

Kay

 

[Octopus]

What you should do is get a full EICR done - £150 - £200 to get a proper picture of the situation.

This will tell you properly what is going on.

If its a rewire you need to ensure that the person/people doing the work are registered, competent and will provide an EIC and LABC notification.

There is no such thing as a NICEIC approval certificate - the NICEIC are just one of the bodies in the trade

A rewire could be £3500 ish

PLUS you will need the plasterer back as the numpty will need to do a lot of making good - surface trunking will look really NAFF.

EDIT: And you'll need RCD protection too

 

[dan86]

was just gonna reply- but what he said ^^

 

[richy3333]

Murdoch say s it well. Also look on the ESC (electrical safety council) website a there is information there specific to landlords/let properties.

 

[Spoon]

As what Murdoch says, and take the money for the EICR from your "project manager" as he is a numpty...

 

[RmBo_0]

If your happy to have trunking running everywhere you may aswell get your electrician to quote a rewire in trunking and surface boxes. I think it looks naff personally but that'll be your cheapest option by the sounds of it to make the installation more safe.

 

[partypest]

If the wiring is as you have described, you are probably looking at a complete rewire and firing your project manager. I shan't bore you with the details, but wiring is all about avoiding heat. There are different installation methods for cables, all with their own correction factors for heat. Wiring a house in plastic trunking is going to need bigger cables to reduce the resistance and therefore reduce the heating effect. If you don't trust the original advice from the electrician you had round, ask another one, I'm pretty sure they'll give you similar news. As for a price, there's a lot of factors that affect costs, mainly how long it's going to take to get under the floors, up the walls etc. get a few quotes and pick the one you find to have the best chance of getting the job done in time for your tenants to move in.

 

[Octopus]

If its for a let, you may wish to check with Estate Agents re the surface trunking as I suspect it would affect your monthly rental income.

Lots to think about....

 

[dan86]

If its for a let, you may wish to check with Estate Agents re the surface trunking as I suspect it would affect your monthly rental income.

Lots to think about....

it would certainly put me right off. looks awful

 

[ketanc]

thank you for all your responses guys, I guess I have lots to think about this morning! I think the first step is an EICR, as Murdoch said.

thank you all again in the words of Arnie... I'll be back!

 

[telectrix]

i find it hard to believe that there is no earthing on the sockets. lights , maybe, but very rare to see socket circuits without. is the wiring in steel conduit, by any chance? can you ease off a socket front ( with the supply isolated ) and see if there is a connection to the earth pin?

 

[Andy78]

I would also definitely advocate having the cables plastered in the walls. If you are doing this as a refurb you need to take into account the longevity of the install.
Surface trunking lid goes missing over time, it can get prised off by kiddies if installed poorly leaving cables to tug on, surface boxes are brittle and get cracked and damaged.
All in all it's a 2nd rate job that will also look TERRIBLE.
Patching over all the chases should not take a plasterer longer than a day at the very most. The cabling in a rewire should last you 20-30 years if not longer, so make sure it has the best installation to help prolong it's life.

 

[ketanc]

i find it hard to believe that there is no earthing on the sockets. lights , maybe, but very rare to see socket circuits without. is the wiring in steel conduit, by any chance? can you ease off a socket front ( with the supply isolated ) and see if there is a connection to the earth pin?

Hi Tec,

I have taken off two sockets and there are no earth pin connections, only red and black twin. The same is for three light fittings I've taken off.

I've had way too much bad luck lately, and frankly I (nor my wallet) can take another battering!

 

[Andy78]

i find it hard to believe that there is no earthing on the sockets. lights , maybe, but very rare to see socket circuits without. is the wiring in steel conduit, by any chance? can you ease off a socket front ( with the supply isolated ) and see if there is a connection to the earth pin?

I was wondering this too. I have never seen anything other than lighting with no earth. I have seen redundant black rubber sheathed twin with no earth, but the OP describes it as red/black twin with white sheath. Anyone seen this before ? Only white sheath I have seen is modern LSF.

 

[telectrix]

there are a few professional spark forum members in your area. no doubt 1 will be able to arrange an inspection for you if you hang around a bit.does sound like a full rewire is essential, though. how much were you quoted?

 

[ketanc]

there are a few professional spark forum members in your area. no doubt 1 will be able to arrange an inspection for you if you hang around a bit.does sound like a full rewire is essential, though. how much were you quoted?

Was quoted £4500... seems a little steep but I wouldn't know! Hence why I'm here!

 

[telectrix]

£4500. it's about right. all depends on the amount of equipment and the time taken. but get at least 1 other quote. make sure that whoever you select will give you certificates and notify to LABC ( building control ).

 

[funkymonkeytwo]

Ketanc I have sent you a private message

 

[danzor]

Maybe the CPC has been cut out, then again I'm sure the electrician would of picked up on that

 

[telectrix]

A few photos would help. esp. of the distribution board.

 

[D Skelton]

We once rewired a house that had no CPC to anything. 1.5mm twin (no CPC) to lights, 4mm twin (no CPC) to sockets and 10mm twin (no CPC) to cooker. Mind, that was stranded tinned copper in grey sheath, not white??

 

[ketanc]

We once rewired a house that had no CPC to anything. 1.5mm twin (no CPC) to lights, 4mm twin (no CPC) to sockets and 10mm twin (no CPC) to cooker. Mind, that was stranded tinned copper in grey sheath, not white??

Hi Guys

Sorry, my eyes have been deceiving me!

Only the bathroom cabling is white sheath, the rest (sockets, switches etc) is grey sheath with red & black twin multi strand copper.

 

[telectrix]

can we have some photos?

 

[ketanc]

can we have some photos?

Hi Tec

I'm not at the house until later this afternoon Will take some then and post them as soon as I get back.

 

[Engineer54]

I suggest you get at least 2 quotes and better 3!! Also, make sure they are from fully qualified electricians and not part trained DI's, registration with NICEIC, ELSCA or any other of the scheme providers will not guarantee the operative is a fully trained electrician unfortunately. When you spend £4000+ on a complete rewire, you expect to increase or maintain the value of your property, so forget any notion about a mini trunking installation it will do neither!! lol!!

As a landlord, this is not the time to scrimp and save, ...get the job done once and right by a professional. The installation will then last and more importantly, be safe for any future occupants!! ...And probably will see you pushing up daisy's before it needs re-wiring again!! lol!!

 

[D Skelton]

I suggest you get at least 2 quotes and better 3!! Also, make sure they are from fully qualified electricians and not part trained DI's, registration with NICEIC, ELSCA or any other of the scheme providers will not guarantee the operative is a fully trained electrician unfortunately. When you spend £4000+ on a complete rewire, you expect to increase or maintain the value of your property, so forget any notion about a mini trunking installation it will do neither!! lol!!

As a landlord, this is not the time to scrimp and save, ...get the job done once and right by a professional. The installation will then last and more importantly, be safe for any future occupants!! ...And probably will see you pushing up daisy's before it needs re-wiring again!! lol!!

What ^ he said!

 

[Octopus]

I suggest you get at least 2 quotes and better 3!! Also, make sure they are from fully qualified electricians and not part trained DI's, registration with NICEIC, ELSCA or any other of the scheme providers will not guarantee the operative is a fully trained electrician unfortunately. When you spend £4000+ on a complete rewire, you expect to increase or maintain the value of your property, so forget any notion about a mini trunking installation it will do neither!! lol!!

As a landlord, this is not the time to scrimp and save, ...get the job done once and right by a professional. The installation will then last and more importantly, be safe for any future occupants!! ...And probably will see you pushing up daisy's before it needs re-wiring again!! lol!!

And a proper rewire should add to the value of the property

 

[amlu]

sent you a pm