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Rohan

Hi everyone,

Just wanted some advice on what is likely to happen this year with large scale solar installs? Solar farms were / are going up all over the place but a change in government funding is going to stop that come April right? However installs under 5 MW are still going to be funded well?

So does this mean that Solar farms / installs over 5MW are going to drop right off ?
Are large installs below 5MW (factory roof mounted etc) likely to really take off ?

Id like everyone's take on this. As you might be able to tell I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to Solar but I do want to start a career working in this industry. Just wanted to know whether larger installs have a future or not?

Thanks

Rohan
 
PV market is very changeable as it is totally FIT driven, and the FIT can be messed with. Roll the dice and take your chance. I have made a lot out of small scale PV I might add.
 
The grid needs sorting first. My area is full and WPD are not allowing anymore HV connections until at least 2017.

Very hard to get grid connection at the moment.
 
I think there is life left in the old dog yet but the best days are definitely over if they ever started. I work a lot in the commercial "to pay market" which is a profitable company looking to gain some green credentials and install solar which will also offset there electrical consumption. Lately, I find the majority of potential investors are only concerned with hard currency return over the period of 20 years, the feed in tariff and export tariff.

Dont get me wrong, a minority do actually like the concept of reducing their electricity bill but only a small number look at this due to a few reasons being;

its what you call "grey money" they never see it or feel the impact. I come across a lot of enthusiastic financial managers who want say 150kW which is probably the roof capacity of a standard profitable private business. They have the install and the generation contributes to about 5% of their actual usage. This can be disappointing to the end user. I call it a rain drop in the ocean.

these huge distribution and refrigeration buildings are a closed shop. You'll never install on these as companies such as lightsource and the green electrician and a hand full of others are usually chosen to compete in this market backed with investors and usually pension Capitol.

If you are lucky enough, and I enfisise the word "lucky" to secure a small commercial install you then need to get over the obstacle of the dreaded DNO who manage a very underfunded electrical network. They will then hold the customer to ransom and use the standard transformer upgrade cost of between £40,000 to £60,000 which they expect the customer to pay which then makes the job unfeasable and all that hard work goes down the crapper. The amount of jobs I've lost and had to reduce to 20kW beggers belief just to turn a profit and not pay those parasitic network operators their upgrade ransom.

Nowadays accountants in companies don't see solar as the golden investment it once was but the Chinese are helping the market by reducing materials cost which is a great help in reducing installation cost and getting the customer a financial return of above 12%.

A trend that has crept into the market nowadays is the buyer wants you to not include RPI on tariffs, currently I use about 1.6% and also place a 1.6% on electricity annual increase. The client wants 0% and is only interested in financial gain. Your domestic market however likes the electricity offset.

There is still room for install but you are entering a heavily saturated marked that has been abused by ex-double glazing salesmen pitching very aggressive sales and covering every potential rooftop Google Earth can show. If you come across a roof facing south that can hold a standard 50kW (200 panels) that hasn't been harassed you have got to be the luckiest person alive. Many that don't have solar would have had countless cold calls and a good number of knocks on the door.

Be prepared for a lot of knock backs and disappointments but there is no better or rewarding feeling then switching on a 250kW system that you've designed and project managed I'd say.

Good luck! And welcome to the scene.
 
Thanks for the heads up guys.

Akapablo that is extremely informative! I'm not actually looking to start a business in solar just looking to work with in it as I am getting very bored of domestic and commercial work and solar work really interests me. So really my question is it worth pursuing work with solar companies and furthering myself and looking to specialise in this field or is the work not going to be around for that long? Surely there is a big future in solar installs? The road might be a bit bumpy though ?
 
I think there will always be a market for solar, and the repair and maintenance side of life. The amount of solar farms being installed right now along the M1 & A1 is staggering, i spend a lot of my time traveling the country and its amazing to see how fast they get installed also.
 
So would I be right in saying that solar farms are likely to drop right off after March? And that commercial roof top installs are likely to take off?
 
I had a sit down with a broker the other week. This broker however is a type of EPC (Engineering, Procurement and Construction). He is actually active with farmers getting the land then sitting down with install companies and hamming out build cost then eventually selling it.

He placed 50+MW on the table of various sizes that had to be built in the next 12 months with a few being over the 5MW barrier. The government has placed an agreement that if a project has been approved it is "grandfathered" meaning after April there will be installs over 5MW still being built. These project have over 12 months grace.

Now, let's get onto the builders. These scumbag EPC people bring in foreign labour, the spade diggers are crews from Bulgeria paid peanuts, but fortunes in there eyes. The electricians are Spanish and the HV electricians are specialists. You probably don't fit into any catagory. You see, all the cabling and panel connection basically front end electrical work is carried out by labourers and the plant room or transformer work is carried out by specialists.

Ok, back to my first paragraph sitting down with this guy...the point is when you use foreign labour and they leave the country you have no one to turn to when the sh!t hits the fan and you get breakdowns. This is why companies such as Lightsource set up there own O&M teams, contracts usually at £70k per MW. The groundwork is an easy job if you know what you're doing, there are plenty of unheard horror stories out there were the groundworkers have started and completely fooked the whole thing up running out of space and panelling off plan to squeeze in the quota. This is why they use these teams and English fence work crews because they know how to get the job done. It's a bit of a fixed market place that spans Europe, companies such as schletter run groundwork and skim by bringing in the Bulgerians to complete construction.

Anyhow, the EPC people are starting to use English sparks now at 6.5p/W because of insurances and liabilities they can claim on. I heard a horror story about a huge install that ventured into using 27.6 trios and the ground workers that connected the mc4's buggered up the torque. All the inverters started tripping out due to condensation creating earth leakage and a team spent 3 months changing all the mc4's, oh how I laughed my --- off.

There's another 12 months left on the above 5MW sites and the big boys are beginning to come to my market place, the commercial rooftop. They swan around with their deep pockets and there luxury PPA agreements that will entice the shrewdest financial manager into agreeing to have his rooftop panelled. Lightsource have a 50MW rooftop target over the next twelve months paying 5p/kW for the PPA on buildings like supermarket warehouses and such, just like the large M&S install that's just been built 6MW.

Rohan, in this business it's who you know not what you know, get in touch with Kingspan, they are pushing the commercial very well with Sainsburies. Lightsource is a closed shop, it's a case of you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. You need to supply Lightsource with PPA agreements and builds before they will give you subby work. They have about 30 uk companies but only use about 3. The green electrician use in house workers and no subbies.

Lastly, I have no work for you as I have my own crews, and 2 select subcontractors I only use. This is how it works, you either need to give someone head or money or be related to somebody important otherwise you'll need to get your own leads.

regards

akaPABLO
 
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The 12 month grace period for large PV projects only applies in a very specific set of circumstances. This is what the government have decided:

13. The Government has decided to provide a grace period designed to protect projects where significant financial commitments have been made on or before 13 May 2014, i.e. the day on which we published our consultation. We have also decided to maintain 13 May 2014 as the date by which the significant financial commitments must have been made.

14. The Government has decided to make a number of adjustments to the evidence that has to be provided in order to benefit from the grace period to ensure the requirements are more aligned with the practical realities of solar PV project development processes and timelines.

15. The Government has decided to carry out a further consultation on an additional grace period for grid delay.

1.51. The adjustments above mean that projects will be required to present the following three forms of evidence to Ofgem in order to access the grace period, unless they had obtained preliminary accreditation by 13 May 2014;

- A grid connection offer and acceptance of that offer, both dated no later than 13 May 2014;
- A Director’s Certificate confirming ownership of the land, lease of the land or an option to lease or to purchase the land as of 13 May 2014; and
- Confirmation that a planning application had been received by the relevant planning authority in respect of the project on or before 13 May 2014.

Government response to consultation on changes to financial support for solar PV, DECC, October 2014 - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...IT_changes_to_Solar_PV_-_FINAL_2014-10-02.pdf

There were additional decisions taken by DECC as a result of the further consultation on a grace period due to grid connection issues. Their decision was:

4. The Government has decided to introduce a 12 month grid delay grace period. Projects qualifying for this grace period will need to commission and have an accreditation date on or before 31 March 2016. New stations benefitting from this grid delay grace period will receive the ROC level in force on the date of accreditation.

5. The Government has decided that the three pieces of evidence that will be required to qualify for the grace period are the same as those outlined in the consultation, with one minor amendment allowing confirmation of the grid connection to be provided by an email or letter. The full evidence requirements are:

a. A grid connection agreement consisting of: a grid connection offer; acceptance of that offer; and a document from the network operator which estimated or set a date no later than 31 March 2015 for delivery of the connection.

b. A written declaration by the generator that to the best of their knowledge, the generating station would have been commissioned on or before 31 March 2015 if the connection had been made on or before the estimated grid connection date.

c. A letter or email from the network operator confirming that the grid connection was made after the estimated grid connection date; and that in the network operator’s opinion, the failure to make the grid connection on or before the estimated grid connection date was not due to any breach of the grid connection agreement by the generator/developer.

Government response to further consultation on changes to financial support for solar PV, DECC, November 2014
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ponse_to_further_consultation_on_solar_PV.pdf
 
Thanks again akaPablo. I didn't realise there was a lot of foreign labour involved hey


See at the moment / for the last few months there has been countless ads on the internet for agency sparks to build solar farms. Oxford, Wales, Kent, Exeter. All over the place! Paying okay money with plenty of hours, Is that likely to continue for the next 12 months ? And would getting on those projects likely to get you connected for anything those companies have in the pipeline ie commercial rooftop jobs?
 
Yep that's a good point. And I do like to think I'm a good spaky hey. I just didn't want to go and start investing a lot of time into an area of work that could drop off but dansk is right, Solar is always going to be there and surely it's only going to grow. I think I'll wait a month for the weather to clear up and then jump on the solar train for the Summer :cool:

if anyone does have any contacts then drop me a message please. Thanks
 
PV doesn't stop for the weather. Gavin A was installing panels in high winds. Start ringing round now. Start with Lark energy, EVO energy and Energy my Way, these are national companies .
 
I think I'll wait a month for the weather to clear up

When you see an opportunity grab it by both hands. Rule #1 , make a decision, Rule #2 Make that decision right. i.e do whatever is necessary to make it be the right one.

If you are going to do something "someday" try to find that date in your diary; mine doesn't have that date. If you delay a month and the snow comes, you'll just delay another month, and then it'll be the kids' birthdays so you won't want to be working away that month, and then your mum will not be well, and then..............


If you delay a month you'll be back in this thread asking if its picking up yet .........

As for the weather: we were installing commercial PV on roofs in January 2013, - had to wait some mornings till 8:30 am (usual start 7:15) as the ice hadn't melted, three pairs of gloves, thermals, plenty of hot chocolate ... Next thing you won't want to be working if it's raining... ( -6°C and snowing most days ...)
 
I'm a softy southerner. I spend as much time as I can in warmer climates surfing. 3 pairs of gloves!!!! haha i'm joking. Yer you're right I best get on and see what's available! Cheers
 
PV doesn't stop for the weather. Gavin A was installing panels in high winds. Start ringing round now. Start with Lark energy, EVO energy and Energy my Way, these are national companies .
I was trying to finish the install before the high winds hit, to be more accurate.

but yes we have once had to dig a foot of snow off the roof to clear it for PV installation in one of those made FIT cut rush periods.
 
I'm a softy southerner. I spend as much time as I can in warmer climates surfing. 3 pairs of gloves!!!! haha i'm joking. Yer you're right I best get on and see what's available! Cheers

Ah sorry, just noticed you are in Cornwall - have you got your passport and injections if you're planning to venture out :welcome:

GavinA do we let them out now they've filled their plot with Wind Turbines and Solar Farms? :81:
 

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