Tightening locknuts with hammer and screwdriver-dog rough or not?

[davesparks]

I often find I have to use a chisel and hammer to tighten locknuts. I see no harm in it, and often nothing else will work in the space available. Reading the comments here, some people seem very much against it. Could anyone explain what harm might come as a result of using this technique?

I don't think it's possible to gauge whether it is actually properly tight or not when hitting it with a hammer and chisel.

The gland and locknut form an electrical connection in the CPC of the circuit, is it really acceptable to make protective conductor connections with a hammer and chisel?

 

[davesparks]

A very good customer needs a supply taken from a perfectly good, but badly glanded board. Do you a). refuse the job because you're going to have to chisel a locknut, or b). do the job and live with the fact you had to chisel a locknut in a job which is otherwise perfectly satisfactory?

c) use an earthing nut instead of the locknut and tighten the gland down into it as they have teeth to grip the enclosure.
d) use an adaptable box or conduit box to gland the cable into.
e) you could probably do something creative with a pair of Conlok adaptors and a short bit of conduit.
f) gland it to the side or bottom of the board, it sounds like the install is already a mess so an ugly cable bit of cable routing probably won't be too bad.

 

[rewireIT]

Sometimes its easier to install the gland without any cable attached to it first. then you can tighten the gland while holding the lock nut; then install the cable. Just stating the obvious as sure you guys know that already

In my experience it's usually a ballache to get the armourings on the gland doing it this way depending on how the cable is run in. Spiralling open the armours and then having to manipulate the cable into place often means they no longer sit right and some get stuck inside the gland instead of sitting outside it.

 

[nicebutdim]

c) use an earthing nut instead of the locknut and tighten the gland down into it as they have teeth to grip the enclosure.
d) use an adaptable box or conduit box to gland the cable into.
e) you could probably do something creative with a pair of Conlok adaptors and a short bit of conduit.
f) gland it to the side or bottom of the board, it sounds like the install is already a mess so an ugly cable bit of cable routing probably won't be too bad.

There are often many means of achieving the same ends and, as I've previously stated, taking a hammer and chisel to the lock nut would be a last resort.

Sometimes an earthing nut isn't available in the required size - unfortunately they aren't widely stocked by local wholesalers, even in small sizes.

Often glanding into something other than the DB is a viable option, but sometimes not.

As you have stated, gland and locknut form an electrical connection. While I've become increasingly confident about the use of Conlok, it should be remembered that the electrical connection depends on a 2mm grub screw.

Glanding to parts of the board (other than the gland plate) would be a usual enough option, but sometimes space constraints mean it isn't possible to get the cable in question to anywhere other than a busy gland plate.

For clarity, and repeating a point I've made several times already, I don't like taking a chisel to locknuts but on some occasions it can be the only option and is a viable (yet rough) method of securing a tight connection between gland and plate.

 

[cliffed]

We“ve all done it..I got told off years ago for doing it..still remains in my head…may ask for some compensation…Mental Health & more in this PC World …certainly not been the same since… bolster & hammer these days

 

[Mike Johnson]

We get so many comments on here about following manufacturers instructions, I wonder what the manufacturer would think about using a hammer and screwdriver/chisel/bolster on their nuts, Oh Matron.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Exactly , we carry a multi thousand pound arsenal of tools yet when it comes to a lock nut we suggest smashing it with a hammer / mallet and a screwdriver / chisel, of which not one of these tools was designed to tighten up or untighten a locking ring / nut...

I still think some sort of grub screw connection for conduit and glands / bushes would be way way simpler

 

[westward10]

Trouble with modern lock nuts is they are so thin. Years ago and I'm not sure if they are still available but you could get quite thick lock nuts which you could actually get a purchase on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Trouble with modern lock nuts is they are so thin. Years ago and I'm not sure if they are still available but you could get quite thick lock nuts which you could actually get a purchase on.

The problem seems to be that most on here are saying, because of space restraints they can't get a tool on the nut to tighten it. I can't think that any manufacturer would put a unit on the market that is so badly designed the knock outs are too close together to allow tightening of the locknuts with a tool.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I can't think that any manufacturer would put a unit on the market that is so badly designed the knock outs are too close together to allow tightening of the locknuts with a tool.

Absolutely, as long as that tool happens to be a chisel.

 

[littlespark]

Stretch the job out.

Disconnect and remove any other glands that are blocking using the proper wrench, then reconnect. Turns a half day job into 3 full.

I’m sure no one would batter an MI gland the same way.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Stretch the job out.

Disconnect and remove any other glands that are blocking using the proper wrench, then reconnect. Turns a half day job into 3 full.

I’m sure no one would batter an MI gland the same way.

I certainly wouldn't pummel an MI gland with a hammer and chisel , not unless you want to spend the next hour re-making it all off again

 

[nicebutdim]

Stretch the job out.

Disconnect and remove any other glands that are blocking using the proper wrench, then reconnect. Turns a half day job into 3 full.

I’m sure no one would batter an MI gland the same way.

That's the answer. Shut down half a building, then spend the rest of the year looking for new work in the few moments of respite between insurance claims.

 

[nicebutdim]

The problem seems to be that most on here are saying, because of space restraints they can't get a tool on the nut to tighten it. I can't think that any manufacturer would put a unit on the market that is so badly designed the knock outs are too close together to allow tightening of the locknuts with a tool.

Knockouts?

Usually the problem is too many outgoing single phase circuits and no space to use other parts of the board. Sometimes it's down to lack of foresight from a previous spark who felt their life would be easier if they kept all outgoing cables to the front.

When I've previously commented about lack of space to get a tool in, it wasn't a flippant comment. Thankfully this isn't an everyday occurrence for me, but in my couple of short years in the industry it's something I've faced on a number of occasions.

 

[Eric12]

These make it a bit easier to get purchase on a difficult lock nut. Found them useful last year when glanding Ryefeids

ERGO™ Central Nut Wide Opening Thin Jaw Adjustable Wrenches with Rubber Handle

{ "1": "ERGO\u2122 Central Nut Wide Opening Thin Jaw Adjustable Wrenches with Rubber Handle" }

www.bahco.com

 

[littlespark]

That's the answer. Shut down half a building, then spend the rest of the year looking for new work in the few moments of respite between insurance claims.

What insurance claims?

Maybe the one about working in a board with live circuits?
You would have the board shut down of course? …. wrestling a big cable and gland into its hole, swinging a big hammer around and all that. Whoops, slipped, bang!

That’s the crux of this thread though…. Saving time by using the wrong tools, and basically cutting corners… because, “ if you don’t do it, someone else will”

Now where have I heard that before?

 

[rewireIT]

What insurance claims?

Maybe the one about working in a board with live circuits?
You would have the board shut down of course? …. wrestling a big cable and gland into its hole, swinging a big hammer around and all that. Whoops, slipped, bang!

That’s the crux of this thread though…. Saving time by using the wrong tools, and basically cutting corners… because, “ if you don’t do it, someone else will”

Now where have I heard that before?

You've got to admit, removing several armoured glands just so you don't have to spend 30 seconds hitting a locknut with a hammer and chisel is a bit OTT. There's doing it properly but there's a phrase 'where reasonably practicable' that is used a lot and this is one of those times. Spending 3 days, 3 days of factory/unit/home downtime, and thousands of pounds, just to avoid saying you cut a corner on a forum, falls under reasonably practicable. It's not. So you shouldn't do it.

When you gland with a hammer and chisel literally nobody but people online cares. Someone on site will call you rough then you go on about your life because it makes no difference.

 

[westward10]

I believe it was said tongue in cheek although it was @littlespark so who knows

 

[littlespark]

I believe it was said tongue in cheek although it was @littlespark so who knows

And it’s the weekend…..

 

[Darkwood]

I'll play the devil's advocate, learnt it that way, always done it and crucially that contact point needs to be as tight as can be given in a fault it could be 1000+ amps, used every tool in the book and never been able to nip it up as tight as a thelmic planner and a old flat bladed screwdriver.

 

[pc1966]

Of course the "proper tool" for this is a ring slogging spanner. Limited risk of damage to the nut, and the satisfaction of tightening with a hammer.

Stop! Hammer time...

Of course would really need modified as @Mike Johnson suggested to be similar to the brake pipe spanners that have a slot that can fit over the typical cable inner.

 

[Eric12]

Of course the "proper tool" for this is a ring slogging spanner. Limited risk of damage to the nut, and the satisfaction of tightening with a hammer.

Stop! Hammer time...

Of course would really need modified as @Mike Johnson suggested to be similar to the brake pipe spanners that have a slot that can fit over the typical cable inner.

I tried this method before; did not end as well as expected tbh. Problem is that different manufacturers have different sized locknuts for their glands, So what might work for one wont for another !

 

[littlespark]

I tried this method before; did not end as well as expected tbh. Problem is that different manufacturers have different sized locknuts for their glands, So what might work for one wont for another !

Whereas an old screwdriver will take a hold on any sized locknut.


Seriously though, I’ve never tightened a nut this way, but loosened plenty off.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I tried this method before; did not end as well as expected tbh. Problem is that different manufacturers have different sized locknuts for their glands, So what might work for one wont for another !

That's why spanner are usually supplied in sets of different size's.

 

[DefyG]

Not condoning the hammer and screwdriver method, but I'm sure we've all had to improvise at sometime or other ?

 

[rewireIT]

A whole six pages........

 

[brianmoooore]

A whole six pages........

Exactly! Yes, dog rough, but sometimes necessary.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Falls into the same debate as house bashers using their 18v impact driver on consumer units

 

[Moley]

Next time I'm working on a gen tx I'll take a photo of the bottom of the marshalling kiosk. It's nearly always impossible to get a spanner in. On rare occasions you might get a water pump pliers on one but no chance with a spanner.

 

[DefyG]

There was a thread a few weeks back about an alternative use for a tool other than it was originally intended for. I'm sure they were all listed in that thread!