Time to call it a day

[Sparkhe]

I have been a sparks for 30 odd years ,I did my 3 years at college for my 2361 1&2
I have my 16th and my employer does not trust my work now because I'm not 17th soon to be 18th . I was off work and they called in another sparks . He sorted the problem out and said my work was dangerous.
I had a 32a bracket on 2.5 twe supplying 2 x 16amp toasters , I put an amp meter on them and they were pulling 12 amps each. So I know they were fine.
But because this new sparks said I did not have 17th , I could not do any more electrical work.
I work on commercial site .
Has the regulations changed that much ?.
So it's time to say goodbye to a trade I have loved doing for 30 years and will miss it.
Good luck to all the newbees coming into a brilliant trade and look forward to all the new friends you will make .

 

[Risteard]

Not sure what you mean by a 32A bracket?

However I must cringe at the very notion of T&E being used in a commercial setting - that cable is designed for domestic use only.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

If you mean you supplied a single 2.5 twin and earth via a 32 amp breaker then yes that is dangerous.16amp or 20 amp breaker at a push.And i agree that tw&e cable is not really suitable for commercial use.

 

[westward10]

Not sure what you mean by a 32A bracket?

However I must cringe at the very notion of T&E being used in a commercial setting - that cable is designed for domestic use only.

Think he means breaker and sorry I agree it should not have been on a 32A.
Didn't know BS6004 only designate this cable for domestic use, learn something new everyday.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

If you mean you supplied a single 2.5 twin and earth via a 32 amp breaker then yes that is dangerous.16amp or 20 amp breaker at a push.And i agree that tw&e cable is not really suitable for commercial use.

You can actually have a 2.5mm conductor in a 32A MCB as long as it is only supplying one single or one double socket. That scenario couldn't be applied here but just mentioning it.

 

[GMES]

What is wrong with T&E on a commercial site or does everyone wire offices in swa now.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

You can actually have a 2.5mm conductor in a 32A MCB as long as it is only supplying one single or one double socket. That scenario couldn't be applied here but just mentioning it.

I beg to differ.2.5 cable can take a max of 27 amps if clipped direct.23amps in a wall or 21 amps above a plasterboard ceiling with insulation.Putting a 2.5 on anything bigger than a 20amp breaker would be madness.Personally i would put a 16amp breaker feeding it.If you wish to back up your claim then please quote the relevant BS7671 number.

 

[Ian1981]

The fact you can't use twin and earth cables in commercial installations is absolute nonsense!

 

[kingeri]

You could have 2.5mm^2 T&E on a 32A breaker if overload protection has been omitted (fixed load). Don't know why you'd do it though. T&E is not strictly for domestic use only, it is used extensively in offices, shops etc. It probably should be though. To me, it depends on the setting, I hate seeing it in commercial kitchens, for example, or factories etc.

 

[Sparkhe]

Not sure what you mean by a 32A bracket?

However I must cringe at the very notion of T&E being used in a commercial setting - that cable is designed for domestic use only.

Sorry I call it commercial as it's 9 buildings not a factory. Yes I hate predict text. 32amp breaker supplying a small 2 way board and 16a mcbs in turn each mcb supplying a toaster.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Have the regulations changed that much ?

 

[Ian1981]

Think the 2.5 on 32amp mcb is referred to a spur off the existing ring final circuit which can feed a single or double socket as the idea is the spurred 2.5mm clipped direct at 27amps can't be overloaded

 

[kingeri]

Sorry I call it commercial as it's 9 buildings not a factory. Yes I hate predict text. 32amp breaker supplying a small 2 way board and 16a mcbs in turn each mcb supplying a toaster.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Have the regulations changed that much ?

I'd have that submain on 4mm^2 at least.

 

[Dave OCD]

I beg to differ.2.5 cable can take a max of 27 amps if clipped direct.23amps in a wall or 21 amps above a plasterboard ceiling with insulation.Putting a 2.5 on anything bigger than a 20amp breaker would be madness.Personally i would put a 16amp breaker feeding it.If you wish to back up your claim then please quote the relevant BS7671 number.

So spurs are banned in your opinion then ? And it's perfectly acceptable to take a RFC spur from the 32a MCB, only feeding one socket though as HHD rightly stated.

 

[westward10]

Sorry I call it commercial as it's 9 buildings not a factory. Yes I hate predict text. 32amp breaker supplying a small 2 way board and 16a mcbs in turn each mcb supplying a toaster.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Have the regulations changed that much ?

No the breaker would be oversized it has nothing to do with recent changes.

 

[westward10]

I get the ring final spur but why are people justifying, creating scenarios pushing this cable size to its limit when in reality they wouldn't do it.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I beg to differ.2.5 cable can take a max of 27 amps if clipped direct.23amps in a wall or 21 amps above a plasterboard ceiling with insulation.Putting a 2.5 on anything bigger than a 20amp breaker would be madness.Personally i would put a 16amp breaker feeding it.If you wish to back up your claim then please quote the relevant BS7671 number.

I shall take the challenge . I haven't got the BYB with me so I cant give you the exact page but if you take a look at appendix 15, reg 433.1.5, fig 15A and read under the 'unfused spur' title it will say:

"An unfused spur may be
connected to the origin of the
circuit in the distribution board."

If you think about it, it's exactly the same as spurring of a ring. As Ian has said, it cant be overloaded as the CCC is 27A clipped direct and fault protection is easily met with a 32A MCB. Plus.... It is in the regs as above.

 

[Sparkhe]

No the breaker would be oversized it has nothing to do with recent changes.

Hi , I had one 32a mcb spare in the main board and needed 2 separate 16a mcb to supply 2 catering toasters.Not domestic.
So maybe it was wrong . Maybe it is time to bow out .
Thanks for your input

 

[kingeri]

I get the ring final spur but why are people justifying, creating scenarios pushing this cable size to its limit when in reality they wouldn't do it.

Because this is a forum, and they can.
But undersizing the cable then using the regs to back up the decision is pointless if you ask me.

 

[Dave OCD]

I shall take the challenge . I haven't got the BYB with me so I cant give you the exact page but if you take a look at appendix 15, reg 433.1.5, fig 15A and read under the 'unfused spur' title it will say:

"An unfused spur may be
connected to the origin of the
circuit in the distribution board."

If you think about it, it's exactly the same as spurring of a ring.

I said the same or very similar in post #13 HHD, in your defence.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

"An unfused spur may be
connected to the origin of the
circuit in the distribution board."

If you think about it, it's exactly the same as spurring of a ring.

Your original post didn't mention spurs.You said you could run a double or single socket directly off a 2.5 fed from a 32amp breaker.in that specific case i would say thats unacceptable.If you were wiring the socket from scratch you would fit a 16amp breaker to feed the double or single socket.