When will you start back working following the lockdown

[DPG]

Draconian measures? The deaths would be well above what they are now if there had been no lockdown!

 

[Zerax]

We have hit nearly 30K deaths, its serious.

I'd take the deaths count with a massive pinch of salt... I read that it's based on the death certificate merely mentioning Coronavirus, not that they died because of it. Also, what about the ones that die because of it, but they don't know they had it ?

 

[Vortigern]

You’ll have to précis that for us @Vortigern

I wont insult the intelligence of people on here I am sure it is a plain enough quote detailing the dangers of the powers the government have just handed themselves. This could be come a socialist utopia in a few weeks!

 

[Risteard]

As I mentioned earlier, there are two guidance documents on gov.uk currently, one says essential repairs and maintainenece only in people's homes, the other clearly allows all work in people's homes.

There are two guidance documents currently published on the gov.uk website which contradict each other.

I doubt the police could actually do anything at all if they didn't have a letter with them, apart from maybe a condescending talk.

The cry of emergency is an intoxicating one, producing an exhilarating freedom from the need to consider the rights of others and productive of the desire to repeat it again and again (Dellway Investments and Others v. NAMA and Others [2011] 4 I.R. 1 at 289).

In actual fact there is a case ongoing in Dublin at present about this. The Constitution very clearly defines an "emergency" as war or armed rebellion, and therefore the description of the COVID-19 situation as an emergency to justify emergency powers is - it is contested - unconstitutional.

 

[davesparks]

In actual fact there is a case ongoing in Dublin at present about this. The Constitution very clearly defines an "emergency" as war or armed rebellion, and therefore the description of the COVID-19 situation as an emergency to justify emergency powers is - it is contested - unconstitutional.

That's a great use of time and money during an international pandemic!

 

[Zerax]

Draconian measures? The deaths would be well above what they are now if there had been no lockdown!

Has Sweden seen significantly higher deaths ? They are about 14% the size of us, so to be on a par... 14% of 28,000 deaths that we've had is 4,000... but they've had 2,800 ?? (Quick 2 min calc based on minimal level of searching... someone correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Risteard]

That's a great use of time and money during an international pandemic!

I believe it's utterly essential.

There's not much view leaving the question of the legality of draconian house arrest orders until after they have been rescinded. They are almost certainly illegal in my view.

 

[Vortigern]

Draconian measures?

Yes draconian measures, as I say while we agree such measures may be necessary do not for a moment think these powers are desirable or wanted on any terms longer than the duration of the emergency. They cannot even be justified under cover of "saving lives" Personally I have no knowledge of any record of the government wanting to save lives and being benevolent. Just because it saves lives don't take your eye off the ball and fall to sleep on this one! The extent of these powers along with the ramifications of other acts such as the Mental Health Act and a raft of others is somewhat alarming this is not just an act to contain. For instance
Section 51 and Schedule 21 of the Act contain certain coercive powers in respect of potentially infectious persons. Under these provisions, Public Health Officers are empowered to require a potentially infectious person to submit to screening and assessment and to impose certain restrictions and requirements on such persons. Constables and Immigration Officers are also empowered to direct or remove a person to a suitable place to undergo screening and to hold them there for a period of time in order to hand them over to a Public Health Officer.
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Don't forget while saving us all from covid19 we are going to be ruined financially! That is quite apart from the above. What happens on a second wave and food shortages occur? Think you will be so happy with the act? Talk about the poisoned chalice!

 

[DPG]

So you think there is an ulterior motive here, and the government has been using Corona to implement more severe mental health act powers? Really? Have you been on Facebook again?

 

[7029 dave]

So you think there is an ulterior motive here, and the government has been using Corona to implement more severe mental health act powers? Really? Have you been on Facebook again?

OR youtube crazy people.

 

[Vortigern]

So you think there is an ulterior motive here, and the government

Most amusing @DPG of you look, I am just sounding a caution regards the act and its sweeping powers and some of the dangers. It is not a conspiracy it is enacted law, a fact! Just because you trust the government does not mean they are trustworthy. Take for instance the Brexit debacle. And what lead up to it. A secession of sovereign powers to a foreign entity, known as treason. Surely you understand that such matters cannot be relegated to tin hat theory/conspiracy these things are in play now it is accomplished already now we need to look at that be careful we are not straying into dangerous territory. I would have expected better than that from you @DPG you to @7029 dave !
Still if you want to call me a conspiracy theorist or crazy fine, but there are brilliant legal minds looking at the facts and law I allude to and some very serious criticisms of this act have already come to light I suggest you educate yourselves instead of guffawing on the sidelines and sniping at such statements

 

[DPG]

Most amusing @DPG of you look, I am just sounding a caution regards the act and its sweeping powers and some of the dangers. It is not a conspiracy it is enacted law, a fact! Just because you trust the government does not mean they are trustworthy. Take for instance the Brexit debacle. And what lead up to it. A secession of sovereign powers to a foreign entity, known as treason. Surely you understand that such matters cannot be relegated to tin hat theory/conspiracy these things are in play now it is accomplished already now we need to look at that be careful we are not straying into dangerous territory. I would have expected better than that from you @DPG you to @7029 dave !
Still if you want to call me a conspiracy theorist or crazy fine, but there are brilliant legal minds looking at the facts and law I allude to and some very serious criticisms of this act have already come to light I suggest you educate yourselves instead of guffawing on the sidelines and sniping at such statements

I apologise for the humorous comment at the end of my post.

 

[7029 dave]

Most amusing @DPG of you look, I am just sounding a caution regards the act and its sweeping powers and some of the dangers. It is not a conspiracy it is enacted law, a fact! Just because you trust the government does not mean they are trustworthy. Take for instance the Brexit debacle. And what lead up to it. A secession of sovereign powers to a foreign entity, known as treason. Surely you understand that such matters cannot be relegated to tin hat theory/conspiracy these things are in play now it is accomplished already now we need to look at that be careful we are not straying into dangerous territory. I would have expected better than that from you @DPG you to @7029 dave !
Still if you want to call me a conspiracy theorist or crazy fine, but there are brilliant legal minds looking at the facts and law I allude to and some very serious criticisms of this act have already come to light I suggest you educate yourselves instead of guffawing on the sidelines and sniping at such statements

Let me tell you of some facts, I lost my friend to this disease, perfectly healthy, had to watch the funeral on live stream, because I could not attend (which upset me),also my other friend in hospital for over 5weeks with corona, he was at deaths door, had a tracheotomy to keep him alive, now a slow but steady recovery.
Don't dare tell me this is all nonsense, its real.
I dont need no education to see what is happening around me.!!

 

[davesparks]

I believe it's utterly essential.

There's not much view leaving the question of the legality of draconian house arrest orders until after they have been rescinded. They are almost certainly illegal in my view.

I don't think you can consider a global epidemic to be anything other than an emergency.

It's the kind of court case that will drag on forever and a day, long after this is over, regardless of when it is started. And to what end?

What draconian house arrest orders? We have been asked to stay at home and follow government guidelines, nobody is under house arrest. We have far lighter restrictions than other countries.

 

[Vortigern]

Don't dare tell me this is all nonsense, its real.

I am truly sorry to hear of your trials and those of your friends. I have not suggested that this is nonsense at any point. There is always more to learn so don't reject the possibility of further education although I realise this is not probably the time. I really went off topic it is true and maybe this is conversation for another day. Just for the record I do not think this is nonsense and have acted with all due caution.

 

[JAWS]

This is a very good read if anyone is interested.

Top Israeli prof claims simple stats show virus plays itself out after 70 days

Isaac Ben-Israel, who is not a medical expert, says analysis worldwide shows new cases peaking after about 40 days, slams economic closures; leading doctor dismisses his claims

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[DPG]

This is a very good read if anyone is interested.

Top Israeli prof claims simple stats show virus plays itself out after 70 days

Isaac Ben-Israel, who is not a medical expert, says analysis worldwide shows new cases peaking after about 40 days, slams economic closures; leading doctor dismisses his claims

www.timesofisrael.com

It's ok him saying it's simple stats, but he has the benefit of hindsight. He is analysing the rise and decline of the virus after it has peaked. I'm not sure he would have been so confident on day 1 of the virus outbreak.

 

[telectrix]

Draconian measures? The deaths would be well above what they are now if there had been no lockdown!

so why is it that Sweden have less deaths per capita than us, and they've had no lockdown?

 

[DPG]

so why is it that Sweden have less deaths per capita than us, and they've had no lockdown?

It's a fair point. I think Sweden's citizens are observing social distancing without lockdown needing to be enforced.

 

[davesparks]

so why is it that Sweden have less deaths per capita than us, and they've had no lockdown?

They probably have better living conditions, better healthcare and a different ethnic makeup of their population, or just a different system for reporting and recording deaths. There could be a whole host of other factors causing the difference.
It could even be that the Swedish government is manipulating the data to make it look like they've got it right.
Have you compared the deaths per capita of every affected country, or are you just comparing the two countries?


Unfortunately, based on current data, this virus appears to affect black and ethnic minority groups worse than others.
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Section 51 and Schedule 21 of the Act contain certain coercive powers in respect of potentially infectious persons. Under these provisions, Public Health Officers are empowered to require a potentially infectious person to submit to screening and assessment and to impose certain restrictions and requirements on such persons.

Yes, because there are a lot of idiots in this country who couldn't be trusted to isolate themselves if they have symptoms these powers are needed.
There are a lot of people in this country who will be bloody minded and just carry on regardless whatever symptoms they have and not care about how many people they might infect. There'll be people who say 'well I feel OK so I'm going out' or 'they can't stop me, I have a right to go out' etc etc whilst they have symptoms of this disease, and if left unchecked will spread it far and wide.

If so many of the population weren't so damn stupid then perhaps we wouldn't have these new laws.

Then of course you have to remember that it was the public/media that were crying out for us to be put in to lock down in tbe first place.
Before schools were closed there was a heck of a lot of public and media pressure to close them, the government were trying to keep them open for as long as possible.

The media was full of people saying that we shoukd have been in lockdown already before it started, plenty of people saying the government were failing because they didn't our us in to lockdown.
And yet now we are in a sort of lockdown everyone is complaining about it again and wanting it ended, challenged in courts.

The government could end the lockdown tomorrow and then face a whole raft of complaints that they've ended it too early and they're just thinking about the money and don't care about people's safety.