Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it?

[baldelectrician]

My feelings are people’s should be free to do what they think fit within the law, and for the good of all. Majority should have the say so. You should run with what the majority have decide, for a suitable period of time, like an elected government. Things like Brexit would have a different period of reflection, not withstanding the EU would have us back in the next decade for example. But say perhaps ‘we’ decided, to rejoin in say 20 or 30 years time, then we could should debate that.

Same for Scottish Independence, a vote was held and the majority made that decision. You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering. You can’t just want a revote because it didn’t work out the way you wanted. I was a remainer, but have accepted the vote to leave, it would be ridiculous to say let’s have another referendum then another referendum then another. Some point, a decision has to be made.

I’m see myself as British not English. I would be concerned for all, if we saw Scotland leave the Union, as I would any other of the Home countries. I’m not sure how England would survive on its own, and how the demise of the UK would affect the other Home countries.

I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.

You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering
Yes- I agree, the UK government have defined a 'generation' as 7 years- this is in the Good Friday Agreement, so I don't mind waiting till September 2021 for the next vote


I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.
68% of Scots who voted in the EU referendum voted to stay in the EU
Scotland voted to stay in and are being forced out, Northern Ireland also voted in (by a smaller margin) and are remaining in the single market, the customs union PLUS being allowed a vote on their future in the EU when the want - through the Northern Ireland assembly
I am happy Northern Ireland have these rights - not that Scotland is effectively told to sit down, shut up and know your place.

To deny a vote is to deny democracy
The answer to how many referendums Scotland should have is simple- as many as the Scottish Parliament vote for.

I see myself as Scottish first and European second, never British.
I cannot wait till I have a Scottish passport - once independence comes I will be replacing my passport even though it has a few years to run.

Scotland will be in an advantageous position post independence, there WILL be a fair (to both sides) deal with the rest of the UK.
If there is no trade deal the lights go out down south, so despite the bluff and bluster of politicians common sense will prevail.

 

[DPG]

You seem proud to say that you would never consider yourself British? How sad. I think you need to get over all this before it takes over.

 

[baldelectrician]

The UK act of leaving the EU is a major act of self harm to the UK, now if the rest of the UK want to jump off the economic cliff then fine- Scotland has a life raft.

The UK government could compromise- the EU have given special dispensation for Northern Ireland to stay in the customs union and single market, Scotland has asked the UK government to request the EU on Scotland's behalf - the UK have refused

As things stand the Scottish Government can not approach the EU as they are not a member state. Once independent we will be a member with a veto and a say at the table.
Remember Malta has more influence over Scottish laws and affairs in some areas than the Scottish Government has.

 

[DPG]

I'm not getting drawn in again. It's like a car crash though, you can't stop looking!

 

[baldelectrician]

Many Scots do not see themselves as British, about 20 years ago 84% of Scots saw themselves as British, recently this was below 60% and is in decline.

This is due to the lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster.

 

[Baddegg]

Many Scots do not see themselves as British, about 20 years ago 84% of Scots saw themselves as British, recently this was below 60% and is in decline.

This is due to the lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster.

Another secret coming here mate......lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster is not exclusive to Scotland.,,,,I’m with @DPG......you seem determined to see the world burn and to hell with anyone that doesn’t agree....see ya x

 

[baldelectrician]

The Scottish Government talk the talk and act where Boris and the rest of the Tories don't care
The financial bail out of the CV19 (so far) has cost only 5% of what it cost to bail out the bankers

Meanwhile the Scottish Government extend free school meals through the summer
Remember all P1-P3 (age 5-8) kids in Scotland already get free school meals (no turkey twizzlers here), will attach my kids school menu.

Free school meals extended through summer in Scotland

Copy of menu (when school is open)

https://www.east-ayrshire.gov.uk/Resources/PDF/School-meals/School-Meals-Menu.pdf

 

[DPG]

Jeez it's like one long party political broadcast on a loop. Same thing over and over again.

 

[baldelectrician]

Another secret coming here mate......lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster is not exclusive to Scotland.,,,,I’m with @DPG......you seem determined to see the world burn and to hell with anyone that doesn’t agree....see ya x

I see the UK going down a bad part and they (the Tories et all) don't seem to care or want to know
All other governments / assemblies in the EU have expressed their wish to have an extension due to Covit, the Tories have just ignored it.

Fortunately in Scotland we have the option to leave-
Putting my cards on the table - if the UK offered Scotland full fiscal autonomy and any war acts had to have the approval of a majority of the UK governments I would be content to stay.

Remember Gordon Brown (with the oversight of David Cameron) offered Scots 'as near federalism as you can get' which turned out to be full control of road signs, 25% of income tax and 15% of welfare

 

[Baddegg]

Gordon brown was/is and always will be a liar, he’s a politician........of course the eu wants an extension we would then be liable for a massive share of the covid bailout......we voted that’s it I appreciate that’s a concept some people struggle with but that’s it...

 

[Midwest]

The UK government could compromise- the EU have given special dispensation for Northern Ireland to stay in the customs union and single market, Scotland has asked the UK government to request the EU on Scotland's behalf - the UK have refused

I thought the reason for that, is the land border between the two countries, and nothing to do with NI wanting to stay in a trading partnership with the EU?

 

[Baddegg]

I thought the reason for that, is the land border between the two countries, and nothing to do with NI wanting to stay in a trading partnership with the EU?

Can you imagine if Scotland does leave.....and does Join the EU (can’t see it but...)and the EU give England dispensation due to the land border ?????......

 

[Midwest]

Can you imagine if Scotland does leave.....and does Join the EU (can’t see it but...)and the EU give England dispensation due to the land border ?????......

You have a point there!

 

[Baddegg]

You have a point there!

I’d imagine that in itself puts Scotland on the back foot for joining.....the EU will never concede that now ?

 

[baldelectrician]

I thought the reason for that, is the land border between the two countries, and nothing to do with NI wanting to stay in a trading partnership with the EU?

It's mainly to do with the Good Friday agreement and peace process, the point is that concessions can be made and M Barnier said that they would consider Scotland in the single market if the UK asked for it (no chance of Westminster asking for it)

The EU are quite clear- in the single market means following the rules of the market, no cherry picking

I am waiting on the court case happening at present, once that ends we will know where we all stand

https://twitter.com/PeoplesAS30?s=20

Section 30 Court case

 

[Baddegg]

One last question @baldelectrician, flogging dead horses and all that...What difference do you see with Scotland and Westminster or Scotland and Brussels?......same horse different jockey I’d have said....

 

[baldelectrician]

One last question @baldelectrician, flogging dead horses and all that...What difference do you see with Scotland and Westminster or Scotland and Brussels?......same horse different jockey I’d have said....

Westminster says take it or leave it to Scotland, they can add, remove powers from Scotland at any time and as we speak they are denying democracy by denying the Scottish Parliament a referendum despite them voting for it.
They can even abolish the Scottish Parliament tomorrow without any say by Scots

The Westminster relationship is that of master and serf- we CANNOT leave any time we want but must seek their approval, a bit like a relationship with domestic abuse.

How would you feel if your daughter (or son) was in a relationship with another party and they controlled all the money, power and were refusing them stay?
Welcome to Scotland

The EU is not perfect (by a long way) but at least the UK could leave when they want and could have a referendum when THE UK decided to have one
Scotland will also have a veto- something we do not have currently

For example-
The other UK governments have expressed concerns (Scotland even voted against legislation and saying NO was deemed as consent by Westminster) about many things, this has been ignored by the UK Government

The SNP got elected in Scotland (last Westminster election) with a higher share of the vote in Scotland and a higher % of the seats then the Conservatives got all over the UK.
This means (in UK 'universe') that the Conservatives have a 'mandate' but the SNP have no 'mandate' in an election where they specifically put a referendum in the manifesto.

Compare that to the EU.
The EU have said they stand 'fully behind Ireland' and have told the UK that they are not negotiating with Ireland but with the EU.
The EU know a hard Brexit will not be best but they are prepared to take a hit for a member state- the UK ignore the views and opinions of their nations and regions

 

[Baddegg]

Bit low mate comparing the relationship to domestic abuse, but let’s leave that for another time.....as for leaving the EU anytime you like don’t kid yourself....Greece tried it but we’re essentially starved and scared away from the idea and Scotland for all frankies lies won’t be much more of a financial powerhouse than the other small eu nations, the only reason the uk could pull it off was because of the financial clout we hold, the eu will command you and will not let you leave!...they will wrap it all up in pretty paper but they’ll ensure you’ll be deep in hock to em......wise man once said you’re better off owing a million pounds than a hundred as the banks are less likely to foreclose, the eu is the same but in reverse, the cost of Scotland leaving they bosom would ruin her and they’ll make sure of it......do you see a hard border then or can you see the eu allowing free flowing goods across.....England wales and Northern Ireland will be rubbing our hands together in that scenario....free trade with the rest of the world and cheap goods from Europe!.....? imagine all the goods coming into uk ports and straight over the border and back into the eu!......or do you think bernier et all havnt considered that?
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Bit low mate comparing the relationship to domestic abuse, but let’s leave that for another time.....as for leaving the EU anytime you like don’t kid yourself....Greece tried it but we’re essentially starved and scared away from the idea and Scotland for all frankies lies won’t be much more of a financial powerhouse than the other small eu nations, the only reason the uk could pull it off was because of the financial clout we hold, the eu will command you and will not let you leave!...they will wrap it all up in pretty paper but they’ll ensure you’ll be deep in hock to em......wise man once said you’re better off owing a million pounds than a hundred as the banks are less likely to foreclose, the eu is the same but in reverse, the cost of Scotland leaving they bosom would ruin her and they’ll make sure of it......do you see a hard border then or can you see the eu allowing free flowing goods across.....England wales and Northern Ireland will be rubbing our hands together in that scenario....free trade with the rest of the world and cheap goods from Europe!.....? imagine all the goods coming into uk ports and straight over the border and back into the eu!......or do you think bernier et all havnt considered that?

A quick research shows that nearly a million people born in Scotland live in England and nearly half a million people born in England live in Scotland....do you propose passports and visas to visit family members in future.....ultimately for all the politicians bluster this is about people....real life ordinary people.....I think frankie forgets this with her obsession......anyway it’s been great debating with ya and I look forward to your reply but that’s it for me now mate we’ll have to agree to disagree and hope you never catch me in Scotland.....
Ps....my real name is scott ? oh the irony ????

 

[baldelectrician]

Bit low mate comparing the relationship to domestic abuse, but let’s leave that for another time.....as for leaving the EU anytime you like don’t kid yourself....Greece tried it but we’re essentially starved and scared away from the idea and Scotland for all frankies lies won’t be much more of a financial powerhouse than the other small eu nations, the only reason the uk could pull it off was because of the financial clout we hold, the eu will command you and will not let you leave!...they will wrap it all up in pretty paper but they’ll ensure you’ll be deep in hock to em......wise man once said you’re better off owing a million pounds than a hundred as the banks are less likely to foreclose, the eu is the same but in reverse, the cost of Scotland leaving they bosom would ruin her and they’ll make sure of it......do you see a hard border then or can you see the eu allowing free flowing goods across.....England wales and Northern Ireland will be rubbing our hands together in that scenario....free trade with the rest of the world and cheap goods from Europe!.....? imagine all the goods coming into uk ports and straight over the border and back into the eu!......or do you think bernier et all havnt considered that?
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A quick research shows that nearly a million people born in Scotland live in England and nearly half a million people born in England live in Scotland....do you propose passports and visas to visit family members in future.....ultimately for all the politicians bluster this is about people....real life ordinary people.....I think frankie forgets this with her obsession......anyway it’s been great debating with ya and I look forward to your reply but that’s it for me now mate we’ll have to agree to disagree and hope you never catch me in Scotland.....
Ps....my real name is scott ? oh the irony ????

If a relationship is one of equal partners then it is mutual, if one partner exerts what is effectively controlling and coercive behaviour then it is unequal and controlling

On the last point - you have no point.
Before the EU there was a common travel area (all the British Isles- including the Republic of Ireland) where people from each part could live, work vote etc.
That existed before the EU and it will continue

There are NO passports and visas to visit people in Eire now and there will not be in the future (this is something that has been agreed between the UK and the Republic of Ireland / EU).

This is another scare story brought up ad infinitum (just like the fiscal deficit to join the EU- which applies to the Euro; not the EU)

I am happy to disagree with you, but the main point you have not answered....

Why does the Scottish Parliament not have the right to decide when and if there should be a referendum?

 

[Baddegg]

If a relationship is one of equal partners then it is mutual, if one partner exerts what is effectively controlling and coercive behaviour then it is unequal and controlling

On the last point - you have no point.
Before the EU there was a common travel area (all the British Isles- including the Republic of Ireland) where people from each part could live, work vote etc.
That existed before the EU and it will continue

There are NO passports and visas to visit people in Eire now and there will not be in the future (this is something that has been agreed between the UK and the Republic of Ireland / EU).

This is another scare story brought up ad infinitum (just like the fiscal deficit to join the EU- which applies to the Euro; not the EU)

I am happy to disagree with you, but the main point you have not answered....

Why does the Scottish Parliament not have the right to decide when and if there should be a referendum?

I think it comes down to stability mate.....they wanted a vote and got one......something changed and you want another vote.....at what point do you stop voting or calling for votes to have votes....they’ll always be a loser that’s democracy....and things will always change that’s life.....@midwest nailed it earlier you’ve not even given it a try yet!