domestic works, to P on not to P

[john.irvine]

i would suggest you have a chat with your local council
it doesnt matter how qualified you are notifiable work is notifiable work whoever does it.
i too am fully qualified 2391, 17th blah blah but still have to pay the £425 each year to niceic to operate within the law

The last time I did domestic work was last year, so I did contact my buildings dept and asked, besides a copy of my qualifications and my inspection and rest results of the work carried out is there any thing else you need such a payment.

The answer was NO, there’s is no payment required, as we do not need to check anything, your qualifications are enough to show you are a competent person to carry out the work, your information goes on file and held here at the Building Dept.

I found out about this from the tutor on the 17th edition course.
He ran a business, which included domestic work and he did not have part P.
He said just get to know some one at your buildings dept, let them know of the work your doing then send them your inspection and test results, if your qualified you don’t realy need Part P.
And he was right.

 

[sparks1234]

Re: mains change

The last time I did domestic work was last year, so I did contact my buildings dept and asked, besides a copy of my qualifications and my inspection and rest results of the work carried out is there any thing else you need such a payment.

The answer was NO, there’s is no payment required, as we do not need to check anything, your qualifications are enough to show you are a competent person to carry out the work, your information goes on file and held here at the Building Dept.

I found out about this from the tutor on the 17th edition course.
He ran a business, which included domestic work and he did not have part P.
He said just get to know some one at your buildings dept, let them know of the work your doing then send them your inspection and test results, if your qualified you don’t realy need Part P.
And he was right.

Cant see why we are all paying our dues then, seems a bit questionable to me.

 

[john.irvine]

Re: mains change

Cant see why we are all paying our dues then, seems a bit questionable to me.

Personaly I think Part P was set up to try and stop the cowboys operating, and to get the plumbers and kitchen fitters compentant to fit and connect the electrics that came into there fields of work.
Therefore, the 4 or 5 organisations recognised by the government to run Part P have seen to it that every one is convinced they need to have it to work in the domestic market.
As a means of getting work, beloning to one of them would carry some weight with the general public, who they have also convinced, so in an advert, or on your van, you would be more likely to get work. How ever, word of mouth from a job well done is always the best advert.

 

[sparks1234]

Re: mains change

4​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

(p) If I want to underpin all or part of the foundations to my
building, will the Building Regulations apply?​

YES​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

– the regulations specifically define this as ‘Building Work’.
The appropriate requirements will be applied so as to ensure
that the underpinning will stabilise the movement of the building.
Particular regard will need to be given to the effect on any
sewers and drains near the work (see paragraph 3.3).​

(q) If I want to install or replace electric wiring, will the Building
Regulations apply?​

YES​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

– the Building Regulations apply to all electrical work in
dwellings. Electrical work involving fixed wiring and fixed appliances
should be acceptably safe whoever undertakes it. This can be
achieved by following the recommendations for design, installation,
inspection, testing and certification in BS 7671: 2001 ‘Requirements
for Electrical Installations – IEE Wiring Regulations’ (see Annex B:
‘Sources of information’).
You only need involve a Building Control Service* for certain
riskier 'notifiable' jobs, but if you employ a registered installer
with the relevant competencies to carry out the work, such
involvement will not be necessary (see Annex B for schemes of
registered installers). Notifiable works include new circuits back
to the consumer unit and additions or alterations to existing
circuits in kitchens, bathrooms and outdoors.Works that are not
notifiable include repairs, replacements and maintenance; and
additions or alterations to existing circuits outside of kitchens
and bathrooms. If you are not sure whether work is notifiable,
you should check with your Building Control Service.
If you use a registered installer for notifiable work, the registration
scheme operator will send you a Building Regulations compliance
certificate when the work is complete. If you use a qualified but
unregistered installer for notifiable work, or do the work yourself,​

*​

​

​

​

​

See paragraph 4.2(i)​

the Building Control Service will inspect the work to check
that it complies with the Building Regulations before issuing a
completion certificate, if one was requested (see paragraph 5.22).
A qualified installer, regardless of whether he/she is registered or
not, should give you a signed BS 7671 electrical safety certificate
for all types of electrical work. The registration scheme operators
can advise you whether an installer is registered for the work you
wish them to do, or you may be able to check that information​

on their website (see Annex B: 'Sources of information').

Think you are taking a risk myself!!! but I guess thats up to you

 

[john.irvine]

Re: mains change

4​

(p) If I want to underpin all or part of the foundations to my​

building, will the Building Regulations apply?​

YES

– the regulations specifically define this as ‘Building Work’.

The appropriate requirements will be applied so as to ensure
that the underpinning will stabilise the movement of the building.
Particular regard will need to be given to the effect on any
sewers and drains near the work (see paragraph 3.3).
​

​

(q) If I want to install or replace electric wiring, will the Building
Regulations apply?
YES ​

​

– the Building Regulations apply to all electrical work in

dwellings. Electrical work involving fixed wiring and fixed appliances
should be acceptably safe whoever undertakes it. This can be
achieved by following the recommendations for design, installation,
inspection, testing and certification in BS 7671: 2001 ‘Requirements
for Electrical Installations – IEE Wiring Regulations’ (see Annex B:
‘Sources of information’).
You only need involve a Building Control Service​

​

* for certain

riskier 'notifiable' jobs, but if you employ a registered installer
with the relevant competencies to carry out the work, such
involvement will not be necessary (see Annex B for schemes of
registered installers). Notifiable works include new circuits back
to the consumer unit and additions or alterations to existing
circuits in kitchens, bathrooms and outdoors.Works that are not
notifiable include repairs, replacements and maintenance; and
additions or alterations to existing circuits outside of kitchens
and bathrooms. If you are not sure whether work is notifiable,
you should check with your Building Control Service.
If you use a registered installer for notifiable work, the registration
scheme operator will send you a Building Regulations compliance
certificate when the work is complete. If you use a qualified but
unregistered installer for notifiable work, or do the work yourself,
​

​

* ​

​

See paragraph 4.2(i)

​

​

the Building Control Service will inspect the work to check
that it complies with the Building Regulations before issuing a
completion certificate, if one was requested (see paragraph 5.22).
A qualified installer, regardless of whether he/she is registered or
not, should give you a signed BS 7671 electrical safety certificate
for all types of electrical work. The registration scheme operators
can advise you whether an installer is registered for the work you
wish them to do, or you may be able to check that information​

on their website (see Annex B: 'Sources of information').

Think you are taking a risk myself!!! but I guess thats up to you
​

I have to fill out and Signe four serial numbered sheets of BS 7671 electrical safety certificates for every instalation I have designed, constructed, inspected and tested at work, whats the differance in doing the same in the domestic field.
​

 

[sparks1234]

Re: mains change

I'm sure you also have a driving licence but would you go out driving if you didn't??

At the end of the day, if it all goes pear shaped you only have yourself to blame, there a lot of guys on here paying their dues to the self certification schemes and doing it all legally, why should you be any different?

The difference is that at work the installation is not covered by Part P, and thats the whole point!!

 

[andyb]

Re: mains change

Can only give you the info that has come from the ECA and now looks like the IEE

And BS7671

522.6.7, I think that backs you up sparks1234.

I stand corrected.

 

[chrissyh]

Re: mains change

I'm sure you also have a driving licence but would you go out driving if you didn't??

At the end of the day, if it all goes pear shaped you only have yourself to blame, there a lot of guys on here paying their dues to the self certification schemes and doing it all legally, why should you be any different?

The difference is that at work the installation is not covered by Part P, and thats the whole point!!

I dont see it like that at all and if i interpret what john has said correctly, then it would appear the local building control has approved him as an installer in which case, for work in his area, he has no requirement to join one of the expensive clubs.

 

[sparks1234]

Re: mains change

I dont see it like that at all and if i interpret what john has said correctly, then it would appear the local building control has approved him as an installer in which case, for work in his area, he has no requirement to join one of the expensive clubs.

Correct me if I am wrong but we are talking about domestic installation here! If that is not the case then I am barking up the wrong tree and I apologise but.
If we are talking about electrical installation in a domestic situation then the law requires electrical installations to be signed off by a person or company that is registered with a self certification scheme such as elecsa, Napit etc etc or the works have to be notified prior to works commencing to the local authority, then at the end of the job they will be signed off by the representative of the local authority, usually a third party electrical contractor.

 

[sparks1234]

New thread to discuss what you need to carry out electrical installations in a domestic enviroment,
Question, can you carry out electrical works in a domestic property without being either in a self certification scheme or having the works certified by the local authority?

 

[Modernelectric]

it depends if the work is part p notifiable or not. theres a list on the goverments website which tells you what work needs to be notified to local building control.

e.g work in kitchens and bathrooms, and new circuits are part p where as moving a lightswitch on a landing is not, but must still comply with 17th edition and be certified by a competent person.

 

[Spudnik]

Although a little out of sync i have moved some posts from the other thread.

 

[sparks1234]

it depends if the work is part p notifiable or not. theres a list on the goverments website which tells you what work needs to be notified to local building control.

e.g work in kitchens and bathrooms, and new circuits are part p where as moving a lightswitch on a landing is not, but must still comply with 17th edition and be certified by a competent person.

We are talking domestic works in general, changing a light switch for a new face plate etc does not need to be notified but John is saying he has shown his electricians certificates to the local authority and they have accepted this as his works are all passed off.

As part P electricians we have to notify and register our jobs, who is notifying Johns? if they are not notified then the client is not getting the correct paperwork to go with the paperwork for the property etc etc.

 

[acat]

I agree with sparks1234 the whole idea was to get rid of the cowboys. a competent person must notify building control before work starts unless it is an emergency. On completion of the work building control take responsibility for your work.

The part P document page 7 states that you are exempt the building control notification if the installation work is undertaken by a person registered with an electrical self certification scheme"

It would be interesting to see if the building control that accepted the qualifications would be willing to put their comments in writing.




Chris

 

[Mac]

Sorry,might sound a bit thick here.If you don't have Part P but are 2391 accredited,you can't carry out work in a domestic property.I thought this was all brought in only for kitchens and bathrooms.Can you not sign off work on any other part of the house including extensions.If you hold the 2391 are you not competent to do all this.

 

[sparks1234]

Sorry,might sound a bit thick here.If you don't have Part P but are 2391 accredited,you can't carry out work in a domestic property.I thought this was all brought in only for kitchens and bathrooms.Can you not sign off work on any other part of the house including extensions.If you hold the 2391 are you not competent to do all this.

No, not according to the laws set out for this type of works, I am sure we are all compedent but it is a requirement to register jobs through a scheme or the local authority, some small works do not require this though and you can download a list

 

[acat]

Hi Mac part P is the EAL VRQ which is purely the basics of electricity in domestic houses.On the electrical side that is covered by the college. The EAL VRQ exam itself at the end of the course is the Building Regs the combination of both give you the part P

Anyone that has the 2391 does not qualify for part P unless they have also got the EAL VRQ. When they brought in part P "grandfather rights" were not included

The minor works mentioned above are I think for your own house if you work in anyone elses part P rears its head again and I think this is why you have to do one notifiable and one non notifiable to get through your assessment.

Chris

 

[Mac]

Another money making scheme to rob the people in this country.Can someone who is Part P then do an inspect and test on industrial or commercial property.Don't you think it seems pointless that if all your work is house bashing and you are offered a small commercial or industrial job you would not be able to do it because you are Part P only

 

[acat]

Cant comment on the others but if you are part P and 2391 qualified with the NICEIC you can only do domestic properties under their banner. Whatever way you look at it, its another stealth tax





Chris

 

[old dog]

hi most building control if you show your qualifications when notifying .they will exept your eic and sign
you off. no need for any third party testing. i would think it may depend on the qualifications you hold