10 Bedroom house rewire. Ring or radial?

[Moaz]

Guys, I'm wiring a ten bedroom house which has 4 floors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as fat as I know, new regs says to keep each room on a radial. So shall I keep each room on a radial or have a few rings on each floor after calculating the maximum demand??

 

[Pete999]

What new regs are you referring to Moaz?

 

[Moaz]

What new regs are you referring to Moaz?

18th Edition?

 

[Pete999]

What new regs are you referring to Moaz?

18th Edition?

Not in force yet, wire your house to comply with the 17th

 

[Octopus]

Best you look at the calculations
... Where is the CU going to be?

Volt drop springs to mind

You haven't been reading the French regs have you?

 

[elsparko]

i havent even started reading up on the 18th yet, is this going to be a thing?

how will adding into a rfc work with this set up if its true after the 18th comes out? would you have to run a radial from board for 1 extra socket?

 

[Moaz]

Best you look at the calculations
... Where is the CU going to be?

Volt drop springs to mind

You haven't been reading the French regs have you?

Lol no!! I've allowed for a CU on each floor. Very big house! It'll save me alot of time and money running a few legs back to the CU to make it in to a ring. I might just wire them as radials.

 

[Octopus]

HMO ?

 

[Jim90]

Is that actually coming into force? Radial per room? That’s a joke. Unnecessarily filling up the DB..

 

[Spoon]

Is that actually coming into force? Radial per room? That’s a joke.

Best idea ever. (If it's true). You are not looking at this correctly.
If the kids are not doing as they are told or spending too much time on their console you can isolate their room without affecting any other rooms. Everyone happy... Except for the kid who isn't doing as they are told..

 

[elsparko]

Best idea ever. (If it's true). You are not looking at this correctly.
If the kids are not doing as they are told or spending too much time on their console you can isolate their room without affecting any other rooms. Everyone happy... Except for the kid who isn't doing as they are told..

thats a bit fritzl

 

[Spoon]

thats a bit fritzl

How?

 

[Pete999]

Lol no!! I've allowed for a CU on each floor. Very big house! It'll save me alot of time and money running a few legs back to the CU to make it in to a ring. I might just wire them as radials.

What about the other circuits, lighting etc if it's a HMO?

 

[Moaz]

Best idea ever. (If it's true). You are not looking at this correctly.
If the kids are not doing as they are told or spending too much time on their console you can isolate their room without affecting any other rooms. Everyone happy... Except for the kid who isn't doing as they are told..

Plus, all the circuits will be on rcbos so it's a win win.

 

[Moaz]

What about the other circuits, lighting etc if it's a HMO?

It's domestic. All circuits will be on rcbos.

 

[Pete999]

Is it a HMO dwelling? Ah right see you have answered that question in the above post. Came through as I sent the question sorry Moaz

 

[Moaz]

Is that actually coming into force? Radial per room? That’s a joke. Unnecessarily filling up the DB..

As far as I've understood. It's true, unless someone can correct me.

 

[Deleted account]

Ive read the 18th draft and didn't see that one. Where did you see it Moaz?

 

[DPG]

Seems an odd move if they remove RFCs completely. I can see how they might recommend radials in certain cases, but surely it's better to keeps RFCs as an option.

 

[Spoon]

Ive read the 18th draft and didn't see that one. Where did you see it Moaz?

same here.

 

[Moaz]

Is that actually coming into force? Radial per room? That’s a joke. Unnecessarily filling up the DB..

As far as I've understood. It's true, unless someone can correct me.

same here.

Maybe I misunderstood. I'll check it tonight.

 

[Deleted account]

Maybe I misunderstood. I'll check it tonight.

Where will you be checking tonight? Where did you see it originally?

 

[Moaz]

Where will you be checking tonight? Where did you see it originally?

Originally another spark mentioned it. And a few weeks later, I heard someone else mention it too. I've not checked the draft myself, but I need to now.

 

[Spoon]

This is what I have as info.

 

[Octopus]

As far as I've understood. It's true, unless someone can correct me.

not true.

But we will have to take into account earth leakage when designing circuits.

Not sure how to do this!

 

[Midwest]

Originally another spark mentioned it. And a few weeks later, I heard someone else mention it too. I've not checked the draft myself, but I need to now.

Tell you 'em you spoke to me, and I said it ain't true.

See how easy it is to make these things up

 

[Pete999]

Is it a HMO dwelling?

This is what I have as info.

Yes I have that as well no mention regarding the OPs post as far as I can see

 

[elsparko]

How?

the best way to learn not to stay up all night is to have to wake up early and feel like ----

 

[The Ghost]

Yeh right calculate earth leakage! Also longevity of cable and who will be using it throughout it's life and how many times per day subject turning on and turning off, no problemo!

 

[Octopus]

Yeh right calculate earth leakage!

Its unbelievable but due to be in the 18th

Be interesting to hear how the IET and scams think installation designs comply or don't comply.

Would have been far better if they had simply stated

"RCBO's for socket circuits"

 

[AJshep]

Anyway Moaz wire it how you like. You know the property and it's layout.

Just be aware of you cable lengths and do your calcs...and you may need to do 4mm radials if the property is that big..

R1+Rn (which you can get from Onsite guide)multipled by the rating of fuse you want to use multipled by the correction factor of 1.2 (70c)

Simple job done.

 

[Marvo]

HMO?? I'm thinking her majesties something?

 

[elsparko]

Anyway Moaz wire it how you like. You know the property and it's layout.

Just be aware of you cable lengths and do your calcs...and you may need to do 4mm radials if the property is that big..

R1+Rn (which you can get from Onsite guide)multipled by the rating of fuse you want to use multipled by the correction factor of 1.2 (70c)

Simple job done.

not if there are seperate CU's on each floor, depends how big the "floor" is though, it might be 10 small box rooms or david camerons house

 

[Marvo]

Surely if the implementation of arc protective devices is imminent this would be another reason to use radial circuits...??

 

[AJshep]

not if there are seperate CU's on each floor, depends how big the "floor" is though, it might be 10 small box rooms or david camerons house

Your right it could be very small but the OP is the one who's been there
I think Moaz said it was large, he didn't say if the DB on each floor was at the middle or the end of the house. So who knows how long the radial could end up being.

 

[Octopus]

Surely if the implementation of arc protective devices is imminent this would be another reason to use radial circuits...??

and how can they be tested?

 

[Octopus]

HMO?? I'm thinking her majesties something?

House of multiple occupancy

i.e. where a property is let out "by room" and the landlord lives else where .................

a very big hot potato ATM

 

[Marvo]

Student digs type places?

Why a hot potatoe?

 

[elsparko]

too many variables to assess from offsite basically

 

[elsparko]

Student digs type places?

Why a hot potatoe?

more like an old folks home, their own rooms sometimes their own toilet, shared kitchen and living area

 

[Octopus]

Why a hot potato?

Because they need to be licenced / registered with the local authorities, inspected and subject to more stringent tests etc than a normal domestic property.

A single room in my patch (in a scruffy area) can easily be "worth" £500 per month, so convert the lounge and dining room and hey presto a 3 bed house is now a 5 bed HMO - so £2500 per month or £30,000 per year .....

Then there are cash payments and loss of tax revenues

I could go on

 

[elsparko]

Because they need to be licenced / registered with the local authorities, inspected and subject to more stringent tests etc than a normal domestic property.

A single room in my patch (in a scruffy area) can easily be "worth" £500 per month, so convert the lounge and dining room and hey presto a 3 bed house is now a 5 bed HMO - so £2500 per month or £30,000 per year .....

Then there are cash payments and loss of tax revenues

I could go on

we had a landlord try convert their 3 bed house to a hmo, they didnt split the ring upstairs where all the rooms are though lol, still it will be something for the tenants to fight over when the bill comes in

 

[Toneyz]

Guys, I'm wiring a ten bedroom house which has 4 floors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as fat as I know, new regs says to keep each room on a radial. So shall I keep each room on a radial or have a few rings on each floor after calculating the maximum demand??

What new reg it that? what reg are you referring to that gives you that impression? however, if that is the/your design there is nothing wrong with it it is in my view a bit OTT unless there is more to this house than a family house.

 

[Marvo]

Because they need to be licenced / registered with the local authorities, inspected and subject to more stringent tests etc than a normal domestic property........

Do they have specific extra requirements on the electrical side?

 

[Octopus]

Do they have specific extra requirements on the electrical side?

fire / smoke alarms, how they are wired, em lights (I think)


Most are horrible so I avoid them like the plague

 

[Adam W]

Do they have specific extra requirements on the electrical side?

I don't know about "requirements" but I've just rewired a house which is being turned into an HMO - they wanted the fire detection to comply with LD1, emergency lighting on the escape route and in the lounge and kitchen, and for some reason the lighting in those areas permanently on.

 

[Octopus]

we had a landlord try convert their 3 bed house to a hmo, they didnt split the ring upstairs where all the rooms are though lol, still it will be something for the tenants to fight over when the bill comes in

Why .......... if the tenancy agreement says the bills will be split evenly , then evenly split they will be..............

There is no requirement for separate circuits in bedrooms AFAIAA

 

[Marvo]

Does the fire detection equipment and emergency lighting fall under the 7671 electrical installation regs or under building regs?

 

[7029 dave]

all I can do. but steaming inside. lol

 

[Octopus]

Does the fire detection equipment and emergency lighting fall under the 7671 electrical installation regs or under building regs?

These are not contained within BS 7671 ......