NICEIC Certification Scheme 2391 V NICEIC - Whats the point in 2391??

[Sparky10]

Hi Guys,

A debate at work and im slightly confused and thought maybe someone here may shed some light.

What is the point in doing your 2391 Testing course? Apparently to be NIC Registered you do not need to have 2391 Inspection & Testing & You are able to sign work off.
However if you have your 2391 you are still unable to sign work off as your are not NIC Registered?

It seems all a bit backward if you ask me how can you be unqualified and sign work off? but maybe there is truth in what i am being told.

If so why do the 2391 when you could sign up to NIC for less then half the price.

Thanks Guys

 

[Taylortwocities]

Is 2391 still a C&G course?

 

[Dillb]

Is 2391 still a C&G course?

Yes they have reintroduced it, but as always it been dumbed down a little I believe its even a open book exam now. Although the numers after the 2391 have changed so you can tell which course people have done.

 

[Dillb]

Your 2391 will prove competence, while the NICEIC will.......no better not dont want to be banned this early into my return.

 

[Andy78]

Same reason to take any course, to improve your understanding of a particular subject and to be able to prove that to others.

You can test and issue certificates with a possession of basic competence, the kind that is gained during normal training to be an electrician.

Joining a competent persons scheme would facilitate the notification of work to building control.

Depends what you mean by "sign off"

The 2391 is the current course code used by City and guilds. It's basically the 2394/5 renamed and made open book examinations.

 

[Octopus]

Just to be clear the NIC aren't the only scheme:

Napit
Stroma
BSI
Elecsa (NIC)
NIC

.....

 

[Rpa07]

Your 2391 will prove competence, while the NICEIC will.......no better not dont want to be banned this early into my return.

Welcome back Dillb, how about putting that face of yours back on the avatar?

 

[Dillb]

Welcome back Dillb, how about putting that face of yours back on the avatar?

I will do, just need to find a updated picture of my ugly mush.

 

[Sparky10]

Just to be clear the NIC aren't the only scheme:

Napit
Stroma
BSI
Elecsa (NIC)
NIC

.....

I am aware of all the schemes, Just NIC is most recognized so i mentioned them to make the thread straight forward. But thanks

 

[Wilko]

... It seems all a bit backward if you ask me how can you be unqualified and sign work off? but maybe there is truth in what i am being told...

If I understand correctly, to do electrical work in accord with BS7671 one needs to be competent. So the qualification is "competence". What is competence, I hear you ask? Being assessed and accepted by a Competent Persons Scheme is one measure perhaps ( ). I can't speak for the Nice Guys, but with my mob they judge competence for EICR is shown when you have practical evidences and a training qualification (2391 for example).

 

[Sparky10]

Same reason to take any course, to improve your understanding of a particular subject and to be able to prove that to others.

You can test and issue certificates with a possession of basic competence, the kind that is gained during normal training to be an electrician.

Joining a competent persons scheme would facilitate the notification of work to building control.

Depends what you mean by "sign off"

The 2391 is the current course code used by City and guilds. It's basically the 2394/5 renamed and made open book examinations.

yes doing any course would improve your understanding, but my question is why would you pay & take the 2391-52( i believe it is now) and still be unable to walk into someone's property and issue a certificate that adequate enough? I believe you should be allowed to be Part of these schemes without having the 2391

 

[Anthony S]

One example of the point of the 2391 is that when big Electrical companies look to take on electricians to carry out inspection and testing on large projects, commercial/industrial they tend to only employ sparks with it.

I've just been on a large industrial warehouse carrying out a periodic and it was 2391, 17th edition JIB Approved Gold card holders only.

 

[Sparky10]

If I understand correctly, to do electrical work in accord with BS7671 one needs to be competent. So the qualification is "competence". What is competence, I hear you ask? Being assessed and accepted by a Competent Persons Scheme is one measure perhaps ( ). I can't speak for the Nice Guys, but with my mob they judge competence for EICR is shown when you have practical evidences and a training qualification (2391 for example).

Hi Wilko, it is my understanding you do not even need 2391 to be part of these competent schemes, Its something i have just been told (after booking my testing course) then being told if i want to join these schemes i have to be assessed AGAIN (surely showing them my 2391 would of been enough) and then another fee to join.

 

[MDJ]

Your 2391 will prove competence, while the NICEIC will.......no better not dont want to be banned this early into my return.

You won't be able to help yourself, it's in your blood lol

 

[Andy78]

yes doing any course would improve your understanding, but my question is why would you pay & take the 2391-52( i believe it is now) and still be unable to walk into someone's property and issue a certificate that adequate enough? I believe you should be allowed to be Part of these schemes without having the 2391

You CAN issue a certificate for your work with or without testing and inspection quals, and with or without scheme membership. Like I said it's notifying work that is made easier with scheme membership.

 

[Sparky10]

One example of the point of the 2391 is that when big Electrical companies look to take on electricians to carry out inspection and testing on large projects, commercial/industrial they tend to only employ sparks with it.

I've just been on a large industrial warehouse carrying out a periodic and it was 2391, 17th edition JIB Approved Gold card holders only.

You are right as only my job only approved 2391 testers can test (fully understand why) but it seems silly how this guy would need to be assessed again if he wanted to be part of the NIC...

 

[Andy78]

You are right as only my job only approved 2391 testers can test (fully understand why) but it seems silly how this guy would need to be assessed again if he wanted to be part of the NIC...

Scheme assessment is nothing like qualification assessment, it's a world away in terms of thoroughness and detail.

 

[Sparky10]

One example of the point of the 2391 is that when big Electrical companies look to take on electricians to carry out inspection and testing on large projects, commercial/industrial they tend to only employ sparks with it.

I've just been on a large industrial warehouse carrying out a periodic and it was 2391, 17th edition JIB Approved Gold card holders only.

You are right as only my job only approved 2391 testers can test (fully understand why) but it seems silly how this guy would need to be assessed again if he wanted to be part of the NIC...

You CAN issue a certificate for your work with or without testing and inspection quals, and with or without scheme membership. Like I said it's notifying work that is made easier with scheme membership.

As i am not part of any scheme i have been told if i issue a certificate i then have to pay Building control a massive about to come out and sign it off. (dont know how true this is)

 

[Sparky10]

Scheme assessment is nothing like qualification assessment, it's a world away in terms of thoroughness and detail.

I 100% agree mate, Personally i think you should need your 2391 in order to be part of these schemes. Shocking how people with less qualifications and experience can Sign off notifiable work, They don't even need to be fully qualified again the "competence" work comes into effect

 

[Anthony S]

I 100% agree mate, Personally i think you should need your 2391 in order to be part of these schemes. Shocking how people with less qualifications and experience can Sign off notifiable work, They don't even need to be fully qualified again the "competence" work comes into effect

Keep away from domestic installers and you won't have worry about it lol