5A round pin sockets

[ste mac]

How do we stand with using the round pin 5A sockets on a lighting circuit with a 6A MCB?

Will the sockets be classed as overloaded (probably only under fault conditions) due to being protected by a 6A MCB?

Is the only way around this to place a fused spur before each 5A socket or would it be better to run a separate circuit for the 5A sockets from a 5A FCU below the Consumer unit from a dedicated MCB?

Do we rate these as 100W per fitting when calculating circuit loading?

A customer has specified about 20 of the 5A sockets on a rewire job I'm pricing for, & requested the sockets to be switched by light switches, so I'm just trying to get my head around which would be the best or most cost effective way of wiring.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Just treat each one as a lighting point when calculating load,as that is what they will be used for......cant see a problem with the 5a on a 6a mcb,as in practice each will only carry the load of one lamp....personally I wouldnt worry.

 

[nickblake]

agree with wire puller very little load just to get to the loading of the socket youll need to be running 1150 watts its a little like terminal block we all use it but its rated at 5 15 30 amps

 

[Dunc]

I agree with the above two posts, been installing quite a few recently and always via a switch which is usually specified on the drawings anyway. I also allow 100W per fitting similar to how you would when designing for any other lighting point on a circuit. The only problem I have found is most of my customers require dimmers fitting to these sockets which means a very large dimmer can be needed due to having to allow for worst case of 100W per outlet.

 

[pushrod]

A customer has specified about 20 of the 5A sockets .

20... wow!

If i do one , in addition to normal paper work i like to actually put a label on or inside a round pin socket saying that it is lighting only do not change. So that sometime in the future you do not get a diyer thinking i'll renew that "old socket" for a new square pin and then getting over load problems.

 

[telectrix]

20... wow!

If i do one , in addition to normal paper work i like to actually put a label on or inside a round pin socket saying that it is lighting only do not change. So that sometime in the future you do not get a diyer thinking i'll renew that "old socket" for a new square pin and then getting over load problems.

seen similar. lady had had a rerwire, 16th around 1993. sparks had fitted a 13A socket for a table lamp, fed off the lighting circuit . not knowing this i fitted a dimmer to the living room lights for the lady. 2 days later, she phoned and said her hoover was not working properly. yep. 13Asocket off a dimmer, turn up the dimmer, hoover went faster.

 

[Engineer54]

I take it that these 5A s/outlets are for table lamps and the like?? Yes i would install these 5A outlets on a separate 6A circuit. A perfectly acceptable installation, and as your client seems to know what he wants from this circuit, it's doubtful if he's the sort of numpty to go changing them for 13A outlets... I did the self same thing for my sister when i re-wired her house many moons ago....

 

[mayfair]

As long as they they dont start pluging 40 inch led TV's into them or running machines. But you cant control that no matter what you do

 

[SPARTYKUS]

20... wow!

If i do one , in addition to normal paper work i like to actually put a label on or inside a round pin socket saying that it is lighting only do not change. So that sometime in the future you do not get a diyer thinking i'll renew that "old socket" for a new square pin and then getting over load problems.

BEST thing I have seen like that - called to house as "fuse keeps blowing" - cartridge type, on lighting.

Work my way round house only to find..... a Double Gang socket above the sink in the bathroom.

"Oh I dry my hair in that"

"Was that when it blew"

"yes"

- was a shaver point, tiny bit of 1.0mm2 feeding it off lights.

Some muppetter !

 

[Johnny-G]

I was installing a fused spur in a downstairs hallway off a RFC the other day and whilst doing so the customer asked if it was possible to have the lights or table lights back on for a while which confused me as I had only isolated the circuit I was working on and hadn't touched any lighting circuit or any 5/6a socket circuits.
After 30mins or so desperately looking for a cable I might've cut, even though I knew I hadn't, it dawned on me that the nice builder who done the place up had run the lights in 1.5/1.0 straight off the 32a RFC, nice.

 

[Marvo]

According to the UK regs would the lighting then need to be protected by an RCD if you use a plug and socket system for the fittings?

 

[Engineer54]

Dunno Marvo, but seeing as everything else seems to need an RCD these days ...why not!! ...lol!!!

 

[Marvo]

I hear if you wear an RCD on bangle around your right wrist it channels Mother Earths layline energies into your Chi and stops rheumatism pain.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

According to the UK regs would the lighting then need to be protected by an RCD if you use a plug and socket system for the fittings?

The socket-outlets would need RCD protection.

 

[Octopus]

Maybe you should fit a 10A MCB, on the basis its 1.5mm T & E??

 

[pushrod]

The socket-outlets would need RCD protection.

Reg 411.3.3 (i) rcd protection in accordance with reg 415.1 shall be provided for socket outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A that are intended for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use...

These are round pin 5A and not intended for general use so you could split hairs and say no, unless of course the cables needed it. However as it's a rewire it is all a bit incidental lol

edit i'm surprised at you jumping on this rcd bandwagon Spin

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes you are quite right pushrod, if the outlets are intended for specific items of equipment then no, RCD protection would not be required.
However, twenty outlets suggests to me that they will be used for extra lighting, as and when required.
I may have the wrong end of the stick, and these outlets may all be for specific equipment such as bedside lights, or perhaps picture lighting.

 

[lauriehurman]

Please excuse a stupid question but;
20 * 100 Watts on one 6amp MCB?
Diversity not allowed on lighting circuits.
I'm guessing you are going to split this down into several lighting circuits?

Laurie

 

[telectrix]

why stop at 100w. a 5Asocket will safely supply a 1kW load, so now we have 20kW. so we can wire them in 16mm with a 100A MCB/Fuse. may as well connect direct into the cut-out. be a tad tight wiring into the 5a sockets though.

 

[RogertheBodger]

I hear if you wear an RCD on bangle around your right wrist it channels Mother Earths layline energies into your Chi and stops rheumatism pain.

It doe's - yes.

( it that how to spell doe's - never looks right to me?)

 

[telectrix]

does it look better this way?

 

[RogertheBodger]

It do's and it dusn't

 

[andyb]

I fit 2 amp sockets, have done for years.

I think the osg allows .5 amp when working out current demand, I totally ignore this and use common sense.

If there is other lighting in a room and a couple of 2a sockets are required I'll allow 100w per socket.
If they want 1/2 a dozen in the same room I'll still probably allow 200w for the sockets as I see the other sockets as just giving the client flexibility as to where they put their lamps.

If however the 2a sockets are the only lighting points in a room, I'll probably allow 100w per socket.
But only up to 3 or 4 sockets, any more and I would probably not count the others for the same reason as above.

 

[pushrod]

I fit 2 amp sockets, have done for years.

I think the osg allows .5 amp when working out current demand, I totally ignore this and use common sense.

If there is other lighting in a room and a couple of 2a sockets are required I'll allow 100w per socket.
If they want 1/2 a dozen in the same room I'll still probably allow 200w for the sockets as I see the other sockets as just giving the client flexibility as to where they put their lamps.

If however the 2a sockets are the only lighting points in a room, I'll probably allow 100w per socket.
But only up to 3 or 4 sockets, any more and I would probably not count the others for the same reason as above.

Agree! You'll be pretty lucky to even find someone selling selling 100W lamps - there is only so much light you can use in a room.