Awkward customer or just me

[James Melville]

I have an awkward customer who moans about everything

They had a new kitchen fitted and had a cooker cable 6mm already in so used that for a work top hob and oven. I used one 45amp isolator switch to switch both appliances on both wires from switch in 6mm protected by a 32amp rcbo. Recently his cooker was fault and got a cooker expert out to fix it. Faulty fan but this bloke said that the cooker needs to be protected by a 13amp fuse as stated in manufactures instructions. Now the customer is saying we bodged it and want a sfs feed off the 6mm to feed the cooker. And work to be done unpaid as our fault. Is there any regs that I could use or am I in the wrong

 

[123]

Was it the manufacturer's people who came out to do the repair?

What you have installed is no different to the setup in millions of homes across the UK

 

[buzzlightyear]

tell the customer the 13amp fuse is not going to do jacks**t when a fault arise and will by pass the 13 amp fuse imho .

 

[James Melville]

I guess it was apparently he was taking pictures of it as well. I know the rcbo protects the cable which is fine as 6mm cable but would the cooker have to be protected by its own 13amp fuse

 

[Octopus]

If said appliance came with a plug fitted it should have been plugged in.

6mm cable, dual outlet plate, one serving 13A socket. Done this several times.

 

[buzzlightyear]

They had a new kitchen fitted and had a cooker cable 6mm already in

answer for them ,

 

[buzzlightyear]

never seen one plug on a oven yet alone cable.

 

[Octopus]

never seen one plug on a oven yet .

Really. Do you live in a cave ?

 

[Ian1981]

My oven is 2.1kw andcame with a flex and plug top......
Very lardy darr

 

[buzzlightyear]

most ovens come with h/r cable or without no plugs on so I have to put on .yeah f/spur

 

[buzzlightyear]

My oven is 2.1kw andcame with a flex and plug top......
Very lardy darr

on the ring circuit Ian.

 

[Deleted member 104825]

I guess if it's not installed as the oven manufacturers instructions then the retailer can pretty much dodge a 'oven knackered' claim should they want to, so then *you'd* probably have to pay out (your punter has photographic proof after all) it doesn't really matter about the regs as long as the regs can be satisfied whilst doing what the manufacturer says.
* Retailer holds the contractual liability but that would be subject to fitting according to manufacturers instructions.
** Can't see you, or your liability insurance going head to head on this as it wouldn't be economic - well not just for an oven fault.

 

[The Ghost]

Is there any regs

With the latest amendment we only have to take manufacturers instructions "into consideration" So it is very much up to the engineer who installed it if he can justify his reasons. However that said it is the case that the item in question is rated to 13a and is effectively protected by a 32a mcb which is quite a high fault tolerance level for the equipment so it may be hard to justify it as suitable protection if the oven has a melt down. So I would guess that it is down to you to fit a fused connection from maybe a dual outlet plate to each item. What is the hob supposed to be fused at?

 

[buzzlightyear]

for argument sake put a socket behind the oven plug in .it will stick out about 2 inches get paid and walk away simple .part p the work
don't hand over the paper work if he does not pay.

 

[dmxtothemax]

I am not sure of the legality of this in UK !
But in USA manufacturers instructions superceed electrical code.
So in essence you must follow manufacturers instructions.
And it could be argued that it is not instaled as required,
So the customer could be justified in requesting it be done so.
I would just do it,you may take a hit and lose a bit, but in the long run
you will be better off, as the customer will be happy !

 

[Ian1981]

on the ring circuit Ian.

It’s own dedicated circuit
A 6mm to a cooker control switch but instead of the outlet I’ve a unswitched single socket

 

[buzzlightyear]

It’s own dedicated circuit
A 6mm to a cooker control switch but instead of the outlet I’ve a unswitched single socket

love it !

 

[Des 56]

I am not sure of the legality of this in UK !
But in USA manufacturers instructions superceed electrical code.
So in essence you must follow manufacturers instructions.

Its not the case in the UK,we should take account of their instructions,must does not apply and for good reason

The health service was left in turmoil by manufacturers instructions and the Iet soon amended the regs to prevent a similar occurunce

 

[123]

It’s own dedicated circuit
A 6mm to a cooker control switch but instead of the outlet I’ve a unswitched single socket

Is the Hob on the same 6mm?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I was doing some work in a factory unit, Part of the work was to provide power for a new machine from China.
The machine once powered up did not function correctly.
After some phone calls and emails, it was decided in China that the PME Earthing was not good enough and an Earth rod should be installed next to the machine inside the factory unit.
I refused.

 

[Ian1981]

Is the Hob on the same 6mm?

No I have a Gas hob on a island

 

[Octopus]

No I have a Gas hob on a island

Malta?

 

[Pete999]

Malta?

Cyprus?

 

[Octopus]

Cyprus?

Wight?

 

[Pete999]

Wight?

Oak?

 

[Ian1981]

Kong

 

[Pete999]

Kong

River

 

[Rpa07]

St Clair (think Brucie!)

 

[Wilko]

Donkey (from Kong, sorry that's a different post but couldn't resist). @Des 56 had me chuckling this morning with #18 ... but I do agree, consider and follow manufacturer's recommendation unless you've a good reason not to. In your exact situation I fit an FCU (and charge for it). I explain to Customer that a fuse is spec'd by manufacturer, so fitting it will secure their warranty. I don't fit a plug, but that's just me.

 

[Sparky Pat]

in order to follow manufacturers instructions you need to have them in your hand before doing first fix. From my experience of dealing with Kitchen suppliers and customers who do not really know what they want then this is not going to happen. So what do you allow for when wiring?
I once had a job where I had to first fix the Kitchen three times because the customer kept changing her mind about what she wanted. Three Kitchen layouts, three different suppliers!!

 

[Wilko]

Agree Pat - we're not mind readers

 

[Electron]

I have recently fitted an oven that came with a 13A socket and an electric ceramic hob using 6mm T&E on a 40A MCB and used a 45 Amp Dual Appliance / Cooker Outlet Plate. (45 Amp Dual Appliance / Cooker Outlet Plate - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AA45DCOP.html) with a patress box to suit (Polar 35mm Deep Pattress Box For PRW217 - http://www.websparky.co.uk/acatalog/Polar-35mm-Deep-Pattress-Box-For-PRW217-PRW218.html). Here is a pic of the finished job.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think that should be nearly finished job.