I have a 36kw gas boiler on a time clock in an outbuilding. When the the timer cuts in first thing in the morning, it fires up the boiler which runs for a few seconds and then stops, there is then a delay of a miniute or so and it tries again, the second time it runs for about 30seconds and then stops, after another delay it tries for a third time, this time it runs fine. However when the timer kicks in either later in the day or early evening the boiler fires up and runs ok on the first attempt. The service company say there is no problem with the boiler, could it be a problem with the timer or something else I have missed?
- Thread starter Victor
- Start date
Could be a number of things, I'd hazard a guess it's temperature related (the environment the boiler is in, not the thermostat).
You could check out the programmer and ensure that all of the time slots have been correctly set. Often there are a number of on/off slots that can get overlooked when setting up the programmer.
You could check out the programmer and ensure that all of the time slots have been correctly set. Often there are a number of on/off slots that can get overlooked when setting up the programmer.
S
Specialist
Sounds like maybe your Thermocouple is on it's way out & not keeping the Gas valve energised. But really a job for a good Heating engineer. Unfortunately what you find with a lot of Maintenance companies is that they're quite happy to take your money but when it comes to actually doing a repair where they're responsible for parts then thats a different matter.
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R
Richard
Always gets me the term heating engineer! Connecting pipes - no problem, but of all the plumbers i'v worked with only a few had a good working knowlege of the electrics involved!!!
S
Specialist
Don't think calling themselves Pipe Monkeys would sound as Impressive Lol.
G
Guest123
Can you elaborate on the 'outbuilding' a bit i.e, detached from the house or part of it. Does it get very cold in there??
mebbe a frost stat & pipe stat needed then...
Had a similar problem on a Rialto 50 commercial burner, would come in in the morning at burner had locked out reset burner and it would fire later on it would not fire at all.
Got the gas engineer in turned out in the end it was the gas pressure needed adjusting.
Got the gas engineer in turned out in the end it was the gas pressure needed adjusting.
Because of the ambient temperature Ian?
Most `Plumbers` will NOT know everything about the Technicalities of Heating Systems and although they might know How they want the Electrical Controls to Operate - If the Controls do NOT Operate in the correct sequence these People don`t know why and cannot check the sequence required.
There are plenty of People who think that a Heating System is just `Guess the Radiators` and Fit them with a Combi Boiler - and that as long as You can `Do` the Pipework it is `Easy` - I pity their Customers !
I am a Heating Engineer - Some of My Friends and Family think that they can just mention a few` Facts` about their Boiler which may not be working and that I could then `Diagnose` the Fault without even going to look at the Boiler . Heating System / Controls - NOT usually possible because of the multitude of `Electrical Elements` of the Modern Boiler and its Controls.
Chris
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Some `Plumbers` would not merit the term `Pipe Monkey` ! - But Qualified Plumbers / Heating Engineers as You know are Tradesmen who require a LOT of Technical Knowledge and Skill.
Chris
P
puddle
With regards to op,think problem is with boiler not external controls,seems boiler is stating and going through its self check process and is sensing something is not quite right,is sounds as one of the sensors itself has a problem
You do not say what boiler it is but the fact it is in a out house this time of year and problem only first thing would point to a possible damp/condensation problem in the boiler,it is not good to have electronic equipment outside in a out house,indeed as you know,delicate equipment should be removed from vans at night this time of year
I would build a insulated box around the boiler,this may well cure the problem and will increase life span of delicate components found in todays boilers
You do not say what boiler it is but the fact it is in a out house this time of year and problem only first thing would point to a possible damp/condensation problem in the boiler,it is not good to have electronic equipment outside in a out house,indeed as you know,delicate equipment should be removed from vans at night this time of year
I would build a insulated box around the boiler,this may well cure the problem and will increase life span of delicate components found in todays boilers
G
Geordie Spark
How about as an experiment you get some sort of heater in the boiler house for a couple of nights to see if the fault is temperature related??
OK ... it's going to cost you some money in running costs for the heater, but it could save you in the end if it points you in the right direction.
D
Deleted member 26818
I'd get another heating company in to look at it.
It could be a number of things.
Low gas pressure, air flow sensor, dirt on the thermocouple, could even be a blockage on the exhaust.
It could be a number of things.
Low gas pressure, air flow sensor, dirt on the thermocouple, could even be a blockage on the exhaust.
D
darkforces
"Hello puddle",
Please don`t be offended by this - your suggestion quoted below - depending upon what type of Boiler this is - could cause a Dangerous situation to occur regarding possible requirement for Combustion Ventilation / Cooling Ventilation.
Quote:
`I would build a insulated box around the boiler,this may well cure the problem and will increase life span of delicate components found in todays boilers`
I know that you are suggesting this to try to prevent Damp getting to the Electrical Components - BUT If this Boiler is an Open Flued Type - Often found installed in Out Buildings - it would REQUIRE Combustion Ventilation - Negating that by `Closing In` the Boiler in an `Insulated Box` would either cause it to not Work at all - because of NO Combustion Ventilation - Or would cause `Incomplete Combustion` and the production of Carbon Monoxide - Very Dangerous - even in an Out Building.
Even If the Boiler is a `Room Sealed` Type - NOT an Open Flued Type - some Boilers Require `Cooling Ventilation` around the Casing - otherwise the Boiler Case SEAL can overheat and therefore Degrade into a Dangerous State - meaning that it No longer Seals - this can not only affect the Combustion Process - but can also allow Products of Combustion to then Leak Out of the Boiler Casing.
Please don`t be annoyed about My Message - As a Heating Engineer I cannot read something like what you suggested and just Ignore it - when there could be a Safety Issue.
Chris
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"Hello Geordie Spark",
What You suggested is a Good Idea to try and find out If the Problem is Damp Related.
If as You suggest the Problem could be caused by Overnight Damp [?] it would definitely be something that I would agree with checking out as You mentioned.
I wonder what kind of Electrical Component could be affected in this way ? - And why would the Damp NOT cause an Electrical Malfunction which would cause an Electrical `Failure` of that or an associated Component ?
I would have thought that IF the Out House is NOT very well `Closed Up` there could well be a LOT of Damp entering in on Damp Nights - the Damp might then dissipate as the Morning goes on - allowing whatever Electrical Component to `Dry Out` - and the Boiler to Fire Up / Operate correctly until the Damp strikes again - ?
I do hope that the OP does try this - even a Fan Heater - Set at 1 KW per Hour would only cost approx. 10 / 12 Pence per Hour - It could be either one that has a built in Thermostat - Or a Plug In Timer could be used to Turn it On / Off at periods during the Night.
I would be VERY Interested in the Result of trying that - as it seems that there is NO `Obvious` Faults on the Boiler / Controls [Have been checked] - this is the kind of Problem that intrigues Me.
Chris
Chris
"Hello spinlondon",
The items that you mentioned would usually cause the Boiler to malfunction and NOT Work correctly later in the Day - But it could easily be that the other Company / Engineer has missed something - they may have Inspected it during a Period of the Day when it was Not affected by perhaps Overnight Dampness - IF this is possibly affecting an Electrical Component [?]
I would definitely endorse [I have done] trying Geordie Sparks suggestion of the Heater in the Boiler Out House overnight first - then get another Heating Engineer to check out the Boiler / Controls in the Early Morning - as Early as possible.
Chris
P
puddle
Obviously any insulated box/compartment constructed around the boiler will have to meet current regulations and MI and apologies that I did not explain this as succinctly as yourself,however as a ''heating engineer'' I feel no problem recommending the above,constructed in the correct way
As mentioned ,I do not know make/model of boiler,once this is know,any requirements can be raised
I like the idea of placing a heater close to unit over a few nights to see if any improvement on initial start up,obviously as long as it meets with current regulations and mi
:cyclist:
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"Hello puddle",
I definitely don`t want to cause any offence to You - I did not know that You are a Heating Engineer - but now that you have mentioned that could you please explain something about what You wrote:
Quote:
`Obviously any insulated box/compartment constructed around the boiler will have to meet current regulations and MI and apologies that I did not explain this as succinctly as yourself,however as a ''heating engineer'' I feel no problem recommending the above,constructed in the correct way`
When You suggested the `Insulated Box` - the only way that would have prevented Damp Air from entering into the Boiler / Electrical Components [If it can get in] is if the `Box` was Air Tight - How could this be achieved and still construct it to meet current regulations regarding Ventilation ?
As I wrote Please don`t take offence - But the Two propositions are Opposite of each other - The `Insulated Box` would be required to be Air Tight - while the Ventilation Requirements / Regulations would not allow that.
I look forward to your Reply.
Chris
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