British Gas Smart meter

[walsall]

nope...i only ever saw the smart pod & CT ring in her hands whilst i was there...

so i dont think `percy` was involved in this particular incident.....

Haha!! How would the meter detect a difference between a 3kw vibro for 2 mins and boiling a kettle......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

folk dont need these things in their own space.....

- - - Updated - - -

Haha!! How would the meter detect a difference between a 3kw vibro for 2 mins and boiling a kettle......

better ask her....

 

[Marvo]

No they don't. How can they tell that I got a Bosch fridge, or a Hotpoint dishwasher? Yes they can see patterns of usage, and statistics folks can make certain assumptions, but to say it can tell how many live there etc??? that's pointless scaremongering

Read the pdf file I attached in post #15 and try the google search I suggested..

 

[walsall]

Read the pdf file I attached in post #15 and try the google search I suggested..

I did Marvo,

I stand by what I say - they can pick up patterns, but not much more that is in anyway personally identifiable. Tesco clubcard is about a million times more invasive. The graphs in the report are not achievable by a single device at the meter point. I'm not saying they don't get a more of a picture, but its not a spy in the house to me.

I do wish that DNO's and energy companies would spend more time actually providing the services that we need/want though.

Maybe I'm just grumpy because I spent half the afternoon on hold to eOn.......

 

[Des 56]

Some food for thought

There may be negativity in the warnings,but my argument is why have these meters in your home if you perceive it being of no benefit to yourself,in which case it it has only one function,it brings to your home (with the probability of loss of control to some distant computer programme)the question of intrusion

quote
Smart meter SSL screw-up exposes punters' TV habits
Also showed researchers WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE HOME

White-hat hackers have exposed the privacy shortcomings of smart meter technology.

The researchers said German firm Discovery apparently allowed information gathered by its smart meters to travel over an insecure link to its servers. The information – which could be intercepted – apparently could be interpreted to reveal not only whether or not users happened to be at home and consuming electricity at the time but even what film they were watching, based on the fingerprint of power usage.
The many surprising secrets revealed by some smart meter set-ups were revealed during a presentation by researchers Dario Carluccio and Stephan Brinkhaus at the 28th Chaos Computing Congress (28c3) hacker conference in Berlin late last month.

During the talk, entitled, Smart Hacking for Privacy (YouTube video ), the researchers explained that they came across numerous security and privacy-related issues after signing up with the smart electricity meter service supplied by Discovery.

Because Discovergy's website's SSL certificate was misconfigured, the meters failed to send data over a secure, encrypted link - contrary to claims Discovery made at the time before the presentation. This meant that confidential electricity consumption data was sent in clear text. Because meter readings were sent in clear text, the researchers were able to intercept and send back forged (incorrect) meter readings back to Discovery.

In addition, the researchers discovered that a complete historical record of users' meter usage was easily obtained from Discovery's servers via an interface designed to provide access to usage for only the last three months. The meters supplied by the firm log power usage in two-second intervals. This fine-grained data was enough not only to determine what appliances a user was using over a period of time – thanks to the power signature of particular devices – but even which film they were watching.

They explained that the fluctuating brightness levels of a film or TV show when displayed on a plasma-screen or LCD TV created fluctuating power-consumption levels. This creates a power/consumption signature for a film that might be determined from the readings obtained by Discovery's technology. The researchers concluded that the two-second frequency of power readings was unnecessary for Discovery's stated goal of providing a warning for consumers should they, for example, have left an iron on after leaving the house.

Nikolaus Starzacher, chief exec of Discovery, was among those who attended the presentation. He thanked the researchers for their work and promised to adapt Discovery's technology so as to minimise potential security and privacy concerns.


Smart meters: an ongoing security threat?

Smart meters bring two-way communication between a meter and the central control system of a gas or electricity utility. Suppliers want to introduce the technology not only because it simplifies the process of collecting meter reading, but also because it makes it easier to control supply at times of peak demand. The technology also makes it easier to switch late or unreliable payers onto higher tariffs.

Some security experts, most notably Ross Anderson, professor in security engineering at the University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory, have warned that smart metering introduces a "strategic vulnerability" that might be exploited to remotely switch off elements on the gas or electricity supply grid. Government ministers in the UK have downplayed such fears but the work of the German researchers raise new concerns, related to privacy. ®

 

[trev]

"The technology also makes it easier to switch late or unreliable payers onto higher tariffs."

So those on a prepayment meter should be given a lower tariff.

What benefit do these meters bring for the consumer?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

smart meters are the stuff of polit bureau...simple as that...

what kind of a state is it that allows invasions like this to take effect over its population?

i mean everytime you go out of your own home your subjected to spyin...in one form or another...cameras here cameras there...phone tapping and the endless `survays`....

the old soviet bloc would`v been proud of it....

 

[Silly Sausage]

That's true Trev.
Like I said earlier, it seems they can change the tariff via the key, need to keep an eye on it!!!
If you hassle them, gas & elec, you can get regular tariff, not the exorbitant rates they usually try with prepay meters.

 

[trev]

I'm seeing more and more prepayment meters and apparently they get crucified of the rate they pay so if a smart meter allows them to switch a late payer onto a higher rate then the opposite should apply to someone paying in advance.

After all, it can't cost the utility company any more to offer the service

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think most of them are put in so people can pay arrears off without being cut off, pay the usual rate plus a certain amount off the debt each week.
Which I can personally testify, is a very fair way of doing it, you've just got to watch they don't over the odds on regular consumption.

 

[cotty]

Card meters are 30% higher than the average joe's who's on quarterly or monthly DD! At the end of the day no matter what opinions are expressed here the energy companies are taking the **** in a big way!! Marvo - you believe what you read and are told! I don't! Smart meters are NOT SO SMART! they cannot tell how many people live in an address or how they use appliances! I've never heard so much crap in all my life!!!!

 

[R G]

When I worked for a DNO I went on metering now and then , I have emptied old slot meters at one point , usually if a debt had to be recovered you had to on a slot prepayment meter , the debt is paid off over a period , the meter had to be adjusted to suit the debt and the amount of money going in , the same can be done with these smart meters , I believe also there is a possibility for multi tariffs to come about for different times off the day and also for different days as well, key and card meters came about after slots but these have expensive up keep costs ,

 

[Geordie Spark]

I'm seeing more and more prepayment meters and apparently they get crucified of the rate they pay so if a smart meter allows them to switch a late payer onto a higher rate then the opposite should apply to someone paying in advance.

After all, it can't cost the utility company any more to offer the service

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Nah! ..... you just had one to many borells o' Dog.

 

[trev]

Nah! ..... you just had one to many borells o' Dog.

I did at the weekend mate.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I did at the weekend mate.

Good lad. Can't be letting the side down.

 

[jaypp]

thanks to the power signature of particular devices – but even which film they were watching.

They explained that the fluctuating brightness levels of a film or TV show when displayed on a plasma-screen or LCD TV created fluctuating power-consumption levels. This creates a power/consumption signature for a film that might be determined from the readings obtained by Discovery's technology

how valuable would this kind of information be to tv companies when selling commercial break slots?

 

[Barry White]

Didnt take much notice and wife signed for ours fitting its by british gas has a remote 100A line or live only contactor built in (power can be turned off by utility by a few keystrokes) it has a sim card fitted which uploads all data every 30 mins gas and electric firmware and rate can be uploaded over the air. you get a digital display for indoors looks like a white satnav. sends a message back to utility if you have a power outage or pull the main fuse and has a anti tamper switch on terminal cover which informs them if tampered with.
the best present they left was my my wife said the lights go dim sometimes now then I saw it myself whilst using a high load (cooker microwave and kettle) found out when fitting the meter they pulled the tails to reroute them disturbing the tails in the consumer unit and the neutral had loosened slightly a quick nip and this was sorted but could have caused overheating or worse.
the only test they did was a polarity test on cooker socket acording to paperwork left

 

[jeremfg]

Wow... I'm amazed at the discussion going on here!

I almost wish most of it was true! I'm an engineer working on the design and development of these systems... You really put the "smart" in smart meters when you suggest the analysis of profile loads and such! You give us way too much credit!

We are far from having that capability... It's not a fully fledge computer you have installed in your homes there, such a thing would jump the price of each unit way overboard that we wouldn't be able to sell them to any utility!

Tamper detection, precise measurements, prepay functionalities, billing are some of the fuctions smart meters offer nowadays... But we're far from being able to collect any kind of useful data about how you consume that energy! At least not yet ;-) lol

Those are exciting technologies to work on... I look forward to the day of smart appliances, which will take advantage of these capabilities...

 

[operator400]

The main catalyst for the government's mass installation of smart meters came in July 2009, when a European Commission Directive made it a requirement that 80 percent of EU households have a smart meters installed by 2020. The British government felt that it could be more ambitious still, unveiling a strategy in March 2011 that would see 53 million smart meters installed in 30 million homes and businesses across the country by 2019.

Bloody EU. Only 7% of our laws come from the Eu, yeah right Mr Clegg.

 

[amckay]

Smart meters my ar$e. They have a sim card inside them that sends usage data over mobile networks so they save money by not employing meter readers. They also emit radiation aparantly (according to them) its not harmful but anti big brother people believe otherwise and we are not legally obliged to have them. I've actually told my provider that I'm removing the meter and fitting my own. (Yes it is completely legal) and I'm charging them £20 a week storage fee for their meter which I removed. That £80 a month pays my bills now and there's naff all they can do about it....until they collect the meter :-(