Discuss British Gas Smart meter in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

T

tbs1983

Just seen advert on TV saying British Gas are upgrading all their customers to smart meters to monitor usage on Power, Lighting, Heating etc,

Can anyone tell me how they work?

e.g. are they linked to consumer unit somehow? without ammeter's on each circuit how can they differentiate between power & lighting usage??
 
BG smart meter?
Probably fiddles your reading in their favour! :)
its nowt but a spy...thats all they are.

check out the ads:

there was one with a magnifying glass scoping across the screen

then theres these new ads showing happy people in british gas`s smiley world...and everything is good about life


funny the public havn`t been consulted about these things being forced on them.....isn`t it...

yet another con....smell it a mile off...
 
I've got a prepay electric meter and I think that communicates with HQ when it gets topped up down the shop.
Updates pennies/kWh etc. via the key or whatever it's called.
Like it meself, no more bills! :)
 
Just seen advert on TV saying British Gas are upgrading all their customers to smart meters to monitor usage on Power, Lighting, Heating etc,

Can anyone tell me how they work?

e.g. are they linked to consumer unit somehow? without ammeter's on each circuit how can they differentiate between power & lighting usage??

Me thinks they are telling porkies- how can a meter do that?
 
Me thinks they are telling porkies- how can a meter do that?
Smart meters can do that. Every appliance has a consumption 'footprint' which the meter can detect the individual load profiles and compare to it's database of reference footprints. Problem with smart meters are mainly around privacy....or lack thereof. Smart meters can deliver profiles of every house including what appliances and how many you're running, also they can tell the number of occupants in the house, whether you go to work during the day etc etc. Secondly there's health issues about the RF used for transmitting the data through the system back to the company that owns them.

Data mining is big money, these things aren't going away easily.
 
Secondly there's health issues about the RF used for transmitting the data through the system back to the company that owns them.

Really?
The ether is saturated with EM waves with all the mobile devices, etc. etc. etc..., these days.
 
Smart meters can do that. Every appliance has a consumption 'footprint' which the meter can detect the individual load profiles and compare to it's database of reference footprints. Problem with smart meters are mainly around privacy....or lack thereof. Smart meters can deliver profiles of every house including what appliances and how many you're running, also they can tell the number of occupants in the house, whether you go to work during the day etc etc. Secondly there's health issues about the RF used for transmitting the data through the system back to the company that owns them.

Data mining is big money, these things aren't going away easily.

Well...... I'm still not convinced. They would be guessing at best. Sure if there is a small peak for a kettle being boiled every 120 minutes - but what about the person who doesn't drink hot drinks??
 
its nowt but a spy...thats all they are.

check out the ads:

there was one with a magnifying glass scoping across the screen

then theres these new ads showing happy people in british gas`s smiley world...and everything is good about life


funny the public havn`t been consulted about these things being forced on them.....isn`t it...

yet another con....smell it a mile off...


Glenn,in case you may be unaware
There is nothing in the goverments proposed layout of these beasts that compels anyone to accept having one if they choose not to

My belief is they should be available for anyone who requests the contraption
That way people with my attitude won't have to argue the case when these companies start getting the ball rolling and try and persuade the detractors like me that they are indeed compulsory

I have read the relevant article and am 100% confident of the opt out right
icon7.png
 
Me thinks they are telling porkies- how can a meter do that?
yep...

its all designed to get the public in line for the `big push`....

since when did any organisation like that care about consumers...as if these things are being rolled out for the pure benefit of the public...all lies..

look at the way they train their new recruits to cheat money out of the unsuspecting.


looking after `your world?`
 
Smart meters can do that. Every appliance has a consumption 'footprint' which the meter can detect the individual load profiles and compare to it's database of reference footprints. Problem with smart meters are mainly around privacy....or lack thereof. Smart meters can deliver profiles of every house including what appliances and how many you're running, also they can tell the number of occupants in the house, whether you go to work during the day etc etc. Secondly there's health issues about the RF used for transmitting the data through the system back to the company that owns them.

Data mining is big money, these things aren't going away easily.

Rubbish! A meter cannot tell how many people are in a property and how exactly they use appliances!! Guess work at the best and like has already been mentioned, it's a way of obtaining exact usage for billing purposes!
 
I watched a documentary about opposition to smart metering made in the US, where load consumption and such things as level and time of those load consumptions told the analysts a wealth of personal information about the user

They were able to extract an absolute treasure trove of personal information through the study
 
Rubbish! A meter cannot tell how many people are in a property and how exactly they use appliances!! Guess work at the best and like has already been mentioned, it's a way of obtaining exact usage for billing purposes!
http://csserver.ucd.ie/~aruzzelli/pubs/Secon10_REAR.pdf

If you need more info just let me know or google 'smart meter electrical signature identification algorithms'
 
I watched a documentary about opposition to smart metering made in the US, where load consumption and such things as level and time of those load consumptions told the analysts a wealth of personal information about the user

They were able to extract an absolute treasure trove of personal information through the study

Maybe so for the average house, but it is still guess work! Most people have worked 9-5 for donkey's years, put a brew on in between Corrie etc!! It's not rocket science is it!
 
Bang on the money Glenn. They ain't doing it for anyone's benefit other than their own, obvious. They don't give a ****e about anyone other than the shareholders, simples.
 
Maybe so for the average house, but it is still guess work! Most people have worked 9-5 for donkey's years, put a brew on in between Corrie etc!! It's not rocket science is it!
Depends on your definition of 'guesswork'. It's scientific load signature identification done with algorithms so I suppose you could call it scientific guesswork.
 
Seen a few smart meters, think it's got a SIM card in! There was a signal bar display on the front. It didn't do much when I ripped the seals of it and jammed a large screwdriver to pull the tails out....
 
Lol, that's going to be another issue entirely. Cut the seal on a smart meter and it will probably start telling tales to it's mom and dad. If they're gsm or RF networked you'll probably have fast response meter seal police to contend with who'll have evidence of what time you cut the seal and which pair of sidecutters you used. Should be good for a laugh, I can see some of the serial seal snippers (try saying that 10 times quickly after a few beers) getting caught red handed.
 
I wonder if they have profiles for MIG, TIG, plasma cutters and Stick welders also compressors and grinders various.

Can't say why I'm asking..
 
If they rely on mobile technology, they need to think again judging by the network around my patch. Awful doesn't come close and I'm in the sold called "rich green belt"
 
BG are the next bank charge/payday lending type carry-on,in my opinion...Massive ad campaign,together with nationwide carpet-bombing of " dangerous electrics" and "Non-viable continued boiler repairs..." targeting the age group that traditionally assumed BG were top-draw...if they are going to put anything in MY meter,it better be a card with "sorry" wrote on it...
 
yep...

its all designed to get the public in line for the `big push`....

since when did any organisation like that care about consumers...as if these things are being rolled out for the pure benefit of the public...all lies..

look at the way they train their new recruits to cheat money out of the unsuspecting.


looking after `your world?`


agreed. since when has any big organisation put their hands in their pockets for their customers best interest? supplying and installing smart-meters + ad campaign won't come cheap so, of course, the same people who increased prices above inflation would definately do this to help said customers. unfortunately, most will be blissfully ignorant!!!
 
...... Smart meters can deliver profiles of every house including what appliances and how many you're running, also they can tell the number of occupants in the house, whether you go to work during the day etc etc. ........

No they don't. How can they tell that I got a Bosch fridge, or a Hotpoint dishwasher? Yes they can see patterns of usage, and statistics folks can make certain assumptions, but to say it can tell how many live there etc??? that's pointless scaremongering
 
No they don't. How can they tell that I got a Bosch fridge, or a Hotpoint dishwasher? Yes they can see patterns of usage, and statistics folks can make certain assumptions, but to say it can tell how many live there etc??? that's pointless scaremongering

No its not
Usage profiling has already been demonstrated in the US

Why would anyone want or encourage a device that will have little to no benefit for the consumer and still permit that dubious device entry to their personal profile
 
yep...

its all designed to get the public in line for the `big push`....

since when did any organisation like that care about consumers...as if these things are being rolled out for the pure benefit of the public...all lies..

look at the way they train their new recruits to cheat money out of the unsuspecting.


looking after `our world`


edited that for ya bud!
 
No its not
Usage profiling has already been demonstrated in the US

Why would anyone want or encourage a device that will have little to no benefit for the consumer and still permit that dubious device entry to their personal profile
i even went to a customers house the other week....it was an unrelated electrical issue but whilst i was there she produced one of these `smart` thingys with a `pod`...and a CT ring + some sort of sender unit...and asked me if i would set it up for her...

i tried to warn her of the dangers of it but she just kept looking at it in a pious sort of a way....beaming on about how she was joining the `technical revolution`

eugh!!
 
i even went to a customers house the other week....it was an unrelated electrical issue but whilst i was there she produced one of these `smart` thingys with a `pod`...and a CT ring + some sort of sender unit...and asked me if i would set it up for her...

i tried to warn here of the dangers of it but she just kept looking at it in a pious sort of a way....beaming on about how she was joining the `technical revolution`

eugh!!
No doubt with glazed eyes and a orgasmic expectation of the wonderful world of intrusion
 
No its not
Usage profiling has already been demonstrated in the US

Why would anyone want or encourage a device that will have little to no benefit for the consumer and still permit that dubious device entry to their personal profile

Des, I agree they do usage profiling - whether that's good or bad is a question. My point was that that they can't be specific about what appliances, or how many people live there. We use the dishwasher 6 times a day, and use the washing machine loads. Is that because 8 people live here, or because my wife writes cookery books and 2 kids play rugby?
 
No they don't. How can they tell that I got a Bosch fridge, or a Hotpoint dishwasher? Yes they can see patterns of usage, and statistics folks can make certain assumptions, but to say it can tell how many live there etc??? that's pointless scaremongering
Read the pdf file I attached in post #15 and try the google search I suggested..
 
Read the pdf file I attached in post #15 and try the google search I suggested..

I did Marvo,

I stand by what I say - they can pick up patterns, but not much more that is in anyway personally identifiable. Tesco clubcard is about a million times more invasive. The graphs in the report are not achievable by a single device at the meter point. I'm not saying they don't get a more of a picture, but its not a spy in the house to me.

I do wish that DNO's and energy companies would spend more time actually providing the services that we need/want though.

Maybe I'm just grumpy because I spent half the afternoon on hold to eOn.......
 
Some food for thought

There may be negativity in the warnings,but my argument is why have these meters in your home if you perceive it being of no benefit to yourself,in which case it it has only one function,it brings to your home (with the probability of loss of control to some distant computer programme)the question of intrusion

quote
Smart meter SSL screw-up exposes punters' TV habits
Also showed researchers WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE HOME

White-hat hackers have exposed the privacy shortcomings of smart meter technology.

The researchers said German firm Discovery apparently allowed information gathered by its smart meters to travel over an insecure link to its servers. The information – which could be intercepted – apparently could be interpreted to reveal not only whether or not users happened to be at home and consuming electricity at the time but even what film they were watching, based on the fingerprint of power usage.
The many surprising secrets revealed by some smart meter set-ups were revealed during a presentation by researchers Dario Carluccio and Stephan Brinkhaus at the 28th Chaos Computing Congress (28c3) hacker conference in Berlin late last month.


During the talk, entitled, Smart Hacking for Privacy (YouTube video ), the researchers explained that they came across numerous security and privacy-related issues after signing up with the smart electricity meter service supplied by Discovery.

Because Discovergy's website's SSL certificate was misconfigured, the meters failed to send data over a secure, encrypted link - contrary to claims Discovery made at the time before the presentation. This meant that confidential electricity consumption data was sent in clear text. Because meter readings were sent in clear text, the researchers were able to intercept and send back forged (incorrect) meter readings back to Discovery.

In addition, the researchers discovered that a complete historical record of users' meter usage was easily obtained from Discovery's servers via an interface designed to provide access to usage for only the last three months. The meters supplied by the firm log power usage in two-second intervals. This fine-grained data was enough not only to determine what appliances a user was using over a period of time – thanks to the power signature of particular devices – but even which film they were watching.

They explained that the fluctuating brightness levels of a film or TV show when displayed on a plasma-screen or LCD TV created fluctuating power-consumption levels. This creates a power/consumption signature for a film that might be determined from the readings obtained by Discovery's technology. The researchers concluded that the two-second frequency of power readings was unnecessary for Discovery's stated goal of providing a warning for consumers should they, for example, have left an iron on after leaving the house.

Nikolaus Starzacher, chief exec of Discovery, was among those who attended the presentation. He thanked the researchers for their work and promised to adapt Discovery's technology so as to minimise potential security and privacy concerns.


Smart meters: an ongoing security threat?

Smart meters bring two-way communication between a meter and the central control system of a gas or electricity utility. Suppliers want to introduce the technology not only because it simplifies the process of collecting meter reading, but also because it makes it easier to control supply at times of peak demand. The technology also makes it easier to switch late or unreliable payers onto higher tariffs.

Some security experts, most notably Ross Anderson, professor in security engineering at the University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory, have warned that smart metering introduces a "strategic vulnerability" that might be exploited to remotely switch off elements on the gas or electricity supply grid. Government ministers in the UK have downplayed such fears but the work of the German researchers raise new concerns, related to privacy. ®
 
"The technology also makes it easier to switch late or unreliable payers onto higher tariffs."

So those on a prepayment meter should be given a lower tariff.

What benefit do these meters bring for the consumer?
 
smart meters are the stuff of polit bureau...simple as that...

what kind of a state is it that allows invasions like this to take effect over its population?

i mean everytime you go out of your own home your subjected to spyin...in one form or another...cameras here cameras there...phone tapping and the endless `survays`....

the old soviet bloc would`v been proud of it....
 
That's true Trev.
Like I said earlier, it seems they can change the tariff via the key, need to keep an eye on it!!!
If you hassle them, gas & elec, you can get regular tariff, not the exorbitant rates they usually try with prepay meters.
 
I'm seeing more and more prepayment meters and apparently they get crucified of the rate they pay so if a smart meter allows them to switch a late payer onto a higher rate then the opposite should apply to someone paying in advance.

After all, it can't cost the utility company any more to offer the service

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
I think most of them are put in so people can pay arrears off without being cut off, pay the usual rate plus a certain amount off the debt each week.
Which I can personally testify, is a very fair way of doing it, you've just got to watch they don't over the odds on regular consumption.
 

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