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[Deleted account]

I thought G/Y was explicitly only for CPC use?

Edit: Yes, see 514.4.2

Only repeating what I was told.
but never done it as yes as far as I’m concerned cpc is cpc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Also in the European Regulations that G/Y is exclusively for "Earth/protective conductor" only, I think we are alone calling CPC, but could be wrong.

 

[pc1966]

Also in the European Regulations that G/Y is exclusively for "Earth/protective conductor" only, I think we are alone calling CPC, but could be wrong.

Most folks call it an earth (ground) wire. It is just the likes of here you would make the distinction between the connection from external means of earthing to the MET, and the protective connector from the MET onwards.

 

[ChipFanDave]

I thought G/Y was explicitly only for CPC use?

Edit: Yes, see 514.4.2

Just playing devils advocate as there is no way I would allow it, but once it’s sleeved surely the original colour of the insulation is ignored. Just as blue and black (grey and yellow) could be live or neutral once it’s sleeved it becomes the colour of its sleeve not its original insulation.

Table 51. Green and Yellow for the protective conductor is no different to neutral of single or three phase circuit being designated blue.

 

[littlespark]

I read the regs as g/y only to be used as cpc/ ground/ earth… whatever you want to call it.
It shouldn’t be used as a live conductor under any circumstance, whether it’s sleeved or not.

It’s bad planning if you end up being a core short for your heating controls, extractor fan or PIR sensor.

 

[pc1966]

Table 51. Green and Yellow for the protective is no different to neutral of single or three phase circuit being designated blue.

But it is. If you sleeve one of the live colour wire as a different line/neutral it is still live.

If you sleeve a G/Y then at some intermediate point someone might add a joint and assume the CPC can be used to bond metalwork (maybe misidentifying the cable). Yes, that would be bad practice to modify a circuit without fully understanding it, but many of the regs are about avoiding two slightly dumb actions becoming a serious hazard.

 

[ChipFanDave]

But it is. If you sleeve one of the live colour wire as a different line/neutral it is still live.

If you sleeve a G/Y then at some intermediate point someone might add a joint and assume the CPC can be used to bond metalwork (maybe misidentifying the cable). Yes, that would be bad practice to modify a circuit without fully understanding it, but many of the regs are about avoiding two slightly dumb actions becoming a serious hazard.

That's why over sleeving is not allowed in single core cables as they could be miss identified along the trunking run.

 

[pc1966]

That's why over sleeving is not allowed in single core cables as they could be miss identified along the trunking run.

A bundle of flexes/T&E can also be misidentified!

 

[ChipFanDave]

A bundle of flexes/T&E can also be misidentified!

No more so than a bundle of lighting conections using the neutral as a sleeved lives.

 

[pc1966]

No more so than a bundle of lighting conections using the neutral as a sleeved lives.

But that is still a live/live confusion issue, and not the CPC discussed here.

Also you can sleeve singles, often you see high current live all in black with coloured or numbered sleeving. Personally I prefer to have the correct brown/black/grey/blue cables as far less chance of me screwing up the identification, but it is still permitted.

 

[littlespark]

It’s much more dangerous to misidentify a g/y…
Tap into that midway, thinking it’s an earth and finding it live could kill someone.

Getting line and neutrals mixed up just causes a big bang and a bit of a fright.

 

[James]

I don’t like it and wouldn’t also, but I have been informed this is acceptable if it’s sleaved.

i have a distant memory of a reg that says you cant.
however,
A... I could be wrong ( it does happen)
B... It could be several editions back in the regs and i have not updated my memory banks correctly.

edit.
@pc1966 has pointed out the reg so i can relax now that i was not going mad!!

 

[brianmoooore]

Mistake a live for a neutral, and something might go bang.
Mistake a live for an earth, and someone might die.

 

[ChipFanDave]

But that is still a live/live confusion issue, and not the CPC discussed here.

Also you can sleeve singles, often you see high current live all in black with coloured or numbered sleeving. Personally I prefer to have the correct brown/black/grey/blue cables as far less chance of me screwing up the identification, but it is still permitted.

The point is although nobody likes to see it, or it’s obviously more dangerous to sleeve this cable than that cable the regs don't forbid it and the use of sleeving is permitted to identify conductors, so they allow it. The annoying thing is they quite easily and with little or most likely no argument could simply say the over sleeving of a protective conductor or use of protective conductor for any other purpose is not permitted. I have no idea why they don’t.

 

[timhoward]

The stupid thing in this case is that a few of seconds thinking would have realised it's wasn't even needed.
I should have taken a photo of the inside of the timer, as that was equally comical.
There were in effect 4 permanent lives between joint box and timer, all from the same circuit, and the timer controlled none of them.

Two of the branches feed PIR lights and they wanted them on all the time. The other circuit was wall mounted lights which they originally wanted time controlled.
All this needed was a feed from CU to joint box, and a 3 core from joint box to timer.
Or if I was feeling exceptionally creative, as CU was in the middle, a feed to each and a chance to use up some 1c+E for a SL.....!

 

[freddo]

and a chance to use up some 1c+E for a SL.....!

LOL I'm ~10M in to a drum of that I got 7 years ago!

 

[ferg]

I am absolutely NOT condoning the use of G/Y sleeved as a live conductor but..

I seem to remember seeing it in an NICEIC snags and solutions book as acceptable in a pinch.

I don't own the book so would have seen it either here or somewhere else similar.

 

[freddo]

I seem to remember seeing it in an NICEIC snags and solutions book as acceptable in a pinch.

I have the 17th edition version and it is shown there, I don't have any newer version.

 

[James]

I have read it and have to take from that extract
it is allowed to use green/yellow sleaved as a live conductor.
personaly I think it is a terrible idea and should never be done but it is not against their interpretation of the regulations.

remember that the NICEIC is not the author of the regulations, just a company that has read it and further expanded on their interpretation.

 

[brianmoooore]

I've just abandoned the post I was writing, since it is almost a repeat of James's post above!