Dodgy trade pictures for your amusement! - 1 Million Views!

[Darkwood]

Right ... Just been nudged to set this up by Paul.M and sounds a good idea following recent threads I've done in the Arms..

Rules....No Offensive material... edit if required before posting as this is the public arena.
Anything to do with the trade or in and around it ...H&S pic's welcome.



I've posted this a few times and this is at a mates house following a kitchen refirb several yrs ago. mg_smile:

 

[Deleted account]

I thought G/Y was explicitly only for CPC use?

Edit: Yes, see 514.4.2

Only repeating what I was told.
but never done it as yes as far as I’m concerned cpc is cpc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Also in the European Regulations that G/Y is exclusively for "Earth/protective conductor" only, I think we are alone calling CPC, but could be wrong.

 

[pc1966]

Also in the European Regulations that G/Y is exclusively for "Earth/protective conductor" only, I think we are alone calling CPC, but could be wrong.

Most folks call it an earth (ground) wire. It is just the likes of here you would make the distinction between the connection from external means of earthing to the MET, and the protective connector from the MET onwards.

 

[ChipFanDave]

I thought G/Y was explicitly only for CPC use?

Edit: Yes, see 514.4.2

Just playing devils advocate as there is no way I would allow it, but once it’s sleeved surely the original colour of the insulation is ignored. Just as blue and black (grey and yellow) could be live or neutral once it’s sleeved it becomes the colour of its sleeve not its original insulation.

Table 51. Green and Yellow for the protective conductor is no different to neutral of single or three phase circuit being designated blue.

 

[littlespark]

I read the regs as g/y only to be used as cpc/ ground/ earth… whatever you want to call it.
It shouldn’t be used as a live conductor under any circumstance, whether it’s sleeved or not.

It’s bad planning if you end up being a core short for your heating controls, extractor fan or PIR sensor.

 

[pc1966]

Table 51. Green and Yellow for the protective is no different to neutral of single or three phase circuit being designated blue.

But it is. If you sleeve one of the live colour wire as a different line/neutral it is still live.

If you sleeve a G/Y then at some intermediate point someone might add a joint and assume the CPC can be used to bond metalwork (maybe misidentifying the cable). Yes, that would be bad practice to modify a circuit without fully understanding it, but many of the regs are about avoiding two slightly dumb actions becoming a serious hazard.

 

[ChipFanDave]

But it is. If you sleeve one of the live colour wire as a different line/neutral it is still live.

If you sleeve a G/Y then at some intermediate point someone might add a joint and assume the CPC can be used to bond metalwork (maybe misidentifying the cable). Yes, that would be bad practice to modify a circuit without fully understanding it, but many of the regs are about avoiding two slightly dumb actions becoming a serious hazard.

That's why over sleeving is not allowed in single core cables as they could be miss identified along the trunking run.

 

[pc1966]

That's why over sleeving is not allowed in single core cables as they could be miss identified along the trunking run.

A bundle of flexes/T&E can also be misidentified!

 

[ChipFanDave]

A bundle of flexes/T&E can also be misidentified!

No more so than a bundle of lighting conections using the neutral as a sleeved lives.

 

[pc1966]

No more so than a bundle of lighting conections using the neutral as a sleeved lives.

But that is still a live/live confusion issue, and not the CPC discussed here.

Also you can sleeve singles, often you see high current live all in black with coloured or numbered sleeving. Personally I prefer to have the correct brown/black/grey/blue cables as far less chance of me screwing up the identification, but it is still permitted.

 

[littlespark]

It’s much more dangerous to misidentify a g/y…
Tap into that midway, thinking it’s an earth and finding it live could kill someone.

Getting line and neutrals mixed up just causes a big bang and a bit of a fright.

 

[James]

I don’t like it and wouldn’t also, but I have been informed this is acceptable if it’s sleaved.

i have a distant memory of a reg that says you cant.
however,
A... I could be wrong ( it does happen)
B... It could be several editions back in the regs and i have not updated my memory banks correctly.

edit.
@pc1966 has pointed out the reg so i can relax now that i was not going mad!!

 

[brianmoooore]

Mistake a live for a neutral, and something might go bang.
Mistake a live for an earth, and someone might die.

 

[ChipFanDave]

But that is still a live/live confusion issue, and not the CPC discussed here.

Also you can sleeve singles, often you see high current live all in black with coloured or numbered sleeving. Personally I prefer to have the correct brown/black/grey/blue cables as far less chance of me screwing up the identification, but it is still permitted.

The point is although nobody likes to see it, or it’s obviously more dangerous to sleeve this cable than that cable the regs don't forbid it and the use of sleeving is permitted to identify conductors, so they allow it. The annoying thing is they quite easily and with little or most likely no argument could simply say the over sleeving of a protective conductor or use of protective conductor for any other purpose is not permitted. I have no idea why they don’t.

 

[timhoward]

The stupid thing in this case is that a few of seconds thinking would have realised it's wasn't even needed.
I should have taken a photo of the inside of the timer, as that was equally comical.
There were in effect 4 permanent lives between joint box and timer, all from the same circuit, and the timer controlled none of them.

Two of the branches feed PIR lights and they wanted them on all the time. The other circuit was wall mounted lights which they originally wanted time controlled.
All this needed was a feed from CU to joint box, and a 3 core from joint box to timer.
Or if I was feeling exceptionally creative, as CU was in the middle, a feed to each and a chance to use up some 1c+E for a SL.....!

 

[freddo]

and a chance to use up some 1c+E for a SL.....!

LOL I'm ~10M in to a drum of that I got 7 years ago!

 

[ferg]

I am absolutely NOT condoning the use of G/Y sleeved as a live conductor but..

I seem to remember seeing it in an NICEIC snags and solutions book as acceptable in a pinch.

I don't own the book so would have seen it either here or somewhere else similar.

 

[freddo]

I seem to remember seeing it in an NICEIC snags and solutions book as acceptable in a pinch.

I have the 17th edition version and it is shown there, I don't have any newer version.

 

[James]

I have read it and have to take from that extract
it is allowed to use green/yellow sleaved as a live conductor.
personaly I think it is a terrible idea and should never be done but it is not against their interpretation of the regulations.

remember that the NICEIC is not the author of the regulations, just a company that has read it and further expanded on their interpretation.

 

[brianmoooore]

I've just abandoned the post I was writing, since it is almost a repeat of James's post above!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Badgers arse rough as ---- to use the cpc / earth conductor as a phase conductor , but if you are rough as ---- then at least heat shrink the entire conductor with coloured sleeve

 

[freddo]

You can get 3 core flex with brown, blue and black cores. I keep it on the van for wiring things like plug in photocells where there is no room for an earth wire. In the fan scenario above I'd use a 4 core flex, at the very least it provides an earth conductor for any future fan that might need it.

 

[littlespark]

Well, the regs DO state that every point must have a cpc, even if it’s unused… so it might be two flexes running between the same two destinations and only one needs a cpc?

I honestly thought there was a reg that said g/y wasn’t to be used as anything other than a cpc, sleeved or not. I’ll have a look for it when I find my book.

A different scenario when you’re sleeving a black in g/y to become a cpc in 3 core SWA with br/bl/gr

 

[telectrix]

I thought G/Y was explicitly only for CPC use?

Edit: Yes, see 514.4.2

nah. with T/E it's used for stripping the sheath off.

 

[littlespark]

nah. with T/E it's used for stripping the sheath off.

Nah. That’s a bare conductor… it’s only g/y after you sleeve it.

 

[telectrix]

jocks 1 - sassenachs 0..........

 

[littlespark]

jocks 1 - sassenachs 0..........

And the g/y singles are only used for tying ladders to the van roof.

Although those new metal cable ties do a decent enough job…. The plastic ones kept snapping.

 

[ipf]

You can get 3 core flex with brown, blue and black cores. I keep it on the van for wiring things like plug in photocells where there is no room for an earth wire. In the fan scenario above I'd use a 4 core flex, at the very least it provides an earth conductor for any future fan that might need it.

I’ve used the green and yellow in 3c with those photocells fastened to the side of old 400w floods in the distant past. I wouldn’t call them separate points.

 

[Raptor0014]

I run this group for Hypervolt authorised EV charge point installers on faceache.

I honestly thought this was a joke. But it appears not.

You can see my 2 replies. First asking to clarify if the 2.5 was for the charger or the CT and second explaining what he’s doing wrong.

Beggars belief that some so called professional would think that is ok!

 

[timhoward]

I run this group for Hypervolt authorised EV charge point installers on faceache.

I honestly thought this was a joke. But it appears not.

You can see my 2 replies. First asking to clarify if the 2.5 was for the charger or the CT and second explaining what he’s doing wrong.

Beggars belief that some so called professional would think that is ok!

View attachment 96112

View attachment 96113

Flipping heck. Scary!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Ah what he did wrong was dreaming he was an electrician when he was asleep, and believed it when he woke up.

 

[Raptor0014]

Also had a call out for a loss of power to half of a house this morning.

Established that 2 of the phases had no power. Rang Western Power and they tried to assure me the property only had single phase.

Bit of a discussion, explained the cable runs, the 3ph meter etc but they were adamant. So hung up. Scratched my head for a min, rechecked everything again. Rang NAPIT technical and described the layout. Funny enough they agreed it was a 3ph supply.

Rang WP back, got a different call handler. Sent a team out who arrived about an hour after the call.

Established I was correct (odd that, I am now quite proud of being an electrician and knowing what a 3ph supply looked like! ).

They found that something had eaten through 2 of the phases on the pole for the supply coming into the house. No idea what but couldn’t see any dead animals. Once they sorted that they had power back to the rest of the house.

Whilst everything was dead I re-terminated the cables into the RCCB. Need to go back and sort that earth out as it seems a tad inadequate for a 3ph supply!

Was also surprised to see, considering how they bang on about electricians not being qualified to pull the cutout, that their operative just walked up and pulled the cutouts, without even making sure all the CU’s were off!

 

[nicebutdim]

And the g/y singles are only used for tying ladders to the van roof.

Although those new metal cable ties do a decent enough job…. The plastic ones kept snapping.

With the price of a pack of those metal ties you could buy a set of fancy clamps.

 

[JBW175]

Found this beauty just hanging out the bathroom wall above a wash hand basin and at eye level on an EICR this morning. I particularly like how they’ve used masking tape over the ends.

When I explained to the client that I can’t just leave it like that, she goes it’s ok, I know it’s live and not to touch it…

Needless to say, I made safe before I left.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Did the home owner / tenant take the old light down ? the masking tape would suggest they did

 

[JBW175]

Did the home owner / tenant take the old light down ? the masking tape would suggest they did

She’s just moved in, hence the inspection. The previous owners removed the cabinet that was there and left it like that when they moved out.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Makes you laugh really how some people can move out and just leave live wires hanging out of a wall

 

[Raptor0014]

Thankfully this is only a phone cable. But the top class cable join did amuse me.

 

[littlespark]

She’s just moved in, hence the inspection. The previous owners removed the cabinet that was there and left it like that when they moved out.

I’d be p155ed off if something fixed was removed from a house I was buying…
Normally “sold as seen”.

Even more p155ed if they had left something dangerous like this.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I’d be p155ed off if something fixed was removed from a house I was buying…
Normally “sold as seen”.

Even more p155ed if they had left something dangerous like this.

I have moved house several times and my solicitor always told us if we took any pictures or shelves down etc to make good and paint etc
But other people don't give a sh!t , I have moved into houses where the people have caused untold damages in the moving out process like big old holes in the plaster board and badly scratched up flooring from dragging furniture around.
Some people are animals and simply don't give a sh!t