Domestic Lighting - RCD protection

[FatAlan]

Coming across a few installations with no RCD protection. How are folks finding it out there when doing minor alterations / additions to existing lighting circuits with no RCD protection bearing in mind 18th Edition requirements. Appreciate every installation is different. Are folks replacing MCB's with RCBO's, replacing whole CU's or where appropriate using RCD FCU's. Should imagine this is going down well with customers.

 

[Midwest]

Not having done the 18th, but I’ve read here some saying the new regulation applies to the whole circuit that has been altered or added to, not just the new bit?

 

[FatAlan]

Not having done the 18th, but I’ve read here some saying the new regulation applies to the whole circuit that has been altered or added to, not just the new bit?

That's what I mean MW. Presumably any new work / additions alteration on a domestic lighting circuit will now mean an addition of an RCD as additional protection to the whole circuit?

 

[westward10]

If you extend to the existing circuit then additional rcd protection is required. Replacing like for like accessories and fittings does not. Somewhere in the 18th Ed it cites en 61008 and en 61009 devices are suitable to provide additional protection, this would not include rcd spurs.

 

[westward10]

Reg 531.3.6

 

[FatAlan]

Who needs the regs with this forum .

 

[Midwest]

If you extend to the existing circuit then additional rcd protection is required. Replacing like for like accessories and fittings does not. Somewhere in the 18th Ed it cites en 61008 and en 61009 devices are suitable to provide additional protection, this would not include rcd spurs.

Glad I stopped doing this nonesence then; regulary used RCD fcu’s for bathroom refurbs. Now probably have to add a new additional CU’s for a couple of downlights or a vanity mirror.

 

[mattg4321]

Glad I stopped doing this nonesence then; regulary used RCD fcu’s for bathroom refurbs. Now probably have to add a new additional CU’s for a couple of downlights or a vanity mirror.

I never usually have trouble with just fitting RCBO's. If I can't source one it's usually because the consumer unit wants changing anyway.

I've never liked using RCD spurs. They're almost always cheap and nasty and almost always located somewhere the customer is unaware of!

 

[Wilko]

Not at all popular I’m afraid.

 

[APE37]

I was wondering about this a few days ago. (Off work at the mo recovering from hernia OP, so got a bit of time on hands).
I was of the impression if say adding a extra light it would need rcd protection so I would put on rcd spur. But learnt something new today from Westwood. So say for the same job you are adding an extra light in a bedroom, you would now need to provide rcd at source. Which could potentially mean a stand alone mini board for lights if unable to get rcbo for original board, or a board change. Customers are going to love us!!!
Sorry mrs Jones as your board has no rcd protection, I cant put an extra light In unless you have new board or mini board for lighting. I can see a lot of Joe's down the pub getting yet more work, as they don't give 2 hoots about regs.

 

[Midwest]

I never usually have trouble with just fitting RCBO's. If I can't source one it's usually because the consumer unit wants changing anyway.

I've never liked using RCD spurs. They're almost always cheap and nasty and almost always located somewhere the customer is unaware of!

Not all CU’s will accept RCBO’s. wish it was that easy.

 

[Midwest]

Seems debatable according to this thread;
Used Rcbo's Yay or nay?? - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/used-rcbos-yay-or-nay.174161/page-2

 

[GBDamo]

....... or where appropriate using RCD FCU's. Should imagine this is going down well with customers.

Ding ding, seconds out, round 756

 

[GBDamo]

I have got approval from NAPIT to use devices to BS7288, which relates to RCD sockets and FCUs in a range of situations.

I am not the only one on this forum to have clarified this point by asking my scheme for advice.

No member has reported back that their scheme do not advise on their continued use, that I have seen.

For Christ sake phone your scheme, if you have one, that's what they're there for.

Ooh, I'm getting all unnecessary now, time for a lie down.

 

[Octopus]

What’s really daft is that if a customer wants a loft light, on a mcb protected circuit (obsolete Cu or 3036) they can’t understand why it would cost £100’s to fit,

My guess is that lots of work that was previously done and certified, is now done cash in hand .....

Progress? I think not

 

[GBDamo]

It would help if our regulatory bodies could provide us with clear and error free guidance for the £88.00 we have to pay them.

 

[westward10]

I have got approval from NAPIT to use devices to BS7288, which relates to RCD sockets and FCUs in a range of situations.

I am not the only one on this forum to have clarified this point by asking my scheme for advice.

No member has reported back that their scheme do not advise on their continued use, that I have seen.

For Christ sake phone your scheme, if you have one, that's what they're there for.

Ooh, I'm getting all unnecessary now, time for a lie down.

In all my years I have never contacted any scheme for advice.

 

[GBDamo]

In all my years I have never contacted any scheme for advice.

I find it very liberating, sometimes it pays not to over think things and ask the people you pay to do the thinking for you.

I know not all sparks are scheme members so on the available evidence to them your stance is correct.

Good innit.

 

[Leeroy]

Surely you could fit an Rcd spur at the origin ?

 

[Tony Reidy]

Coming across a few installations with no RCD protection. How are folks finding it out there when doing minor alterations / additions to existing lighting circuits with no RCD protection bearing in mind 18th Edition requirements. Appreciate every installation is different. Are folks replacing MCB's with RCBO's, replacing whole CU's or where appropriate using RCD FCU's. Should imagine this is going down well with customers.

Yes

 

[GBDamo]

Surely you could fit an Rcd spur at the origin ?

...and be at the mercy of existing faults or borrowed neutrals.

Also, and not sure on this as it's additional protection, changing the circuit protection would make you responsible for the rest of it.

No thanks, RCD FCU at spur.

 

[FatAlan]

...and be at the mercy of exlisting faults or borrowed neutrals.

Also, and not sure on this as it's additional protection, changing the circuit protection would make you responsible for the rest of it.

No thanks, RCD FCU at spur.

How about an RCD fused spur off an RFC for an outside lighting circuit? An addition to another circuit that in its own right also now requires an RCD?

 

[Octopus]

It would help if our regulatory bodies could provide us with clear and error free guidance for the £88.00 we have to pay them.

Ah utopia............

 

[GBDamo]

How about an RCD fused spur off an RFC for an outside lighting circuit? An addition to another circuit that in its own right also now requires an RCD?

If your company is with a scheme, ask the question.

Myself, I see no issue but then I've asked the question of NAPIT.

 

[Leeroy]

An RCD spur at the origin labelled clearly would be better then hiding a spur in a loft or cupboard and as we need to ensure the whole circuit is protected and satisfactory then cost effective too ?

 

[GBDamo]

...... as we need to ensure the whole circuit is protected and satisfactory then cost effective too ?

Have yo a reg number for that, genuine question, it goes against advice I've had.

 

[Leeroy]

411.3.4
I read it that the whole circuit should be rcd protected ?

 

[Leeroy]

The circuit is supplying a luminaire hence rcd protection for the circuit .

 

[GBDamo]

411.3.4
I read it that the whole circuit should be rcd protected ?

Thanks, im on holiday at the moment so no BBB to hand but will give it a read on my return.

What's the betting it's worded so wooly as to not be able to draw a definite conclusion though.

 

[Wilko]

No BBB on holidays ! However do you fill your day? It says (in part) that RCD “shall be provided for AC final circuits supplying luminaires”.