EAL Course in Inspection and Testing

[rmc86uk]

Hi Everyone

Has anyone on here done the EAL Inspection and Testing course? It is set in two parts also like the C&G 2394 and 2395. It is also open book unlike the C&G. I'm thinking of taking the course next year and just wondered what other peoples thoughts are and that the candidate pass rate must be a lot higher than the 40% for 2391.

Just to add I've seen a few posts on here from the Electrical Trainee's who have gained the 2391 qualification with no experience at all! I know a few time served Electricians who have failed the 2391 at least three times!

Surely the scam training centres must be churning the 2391 passes out so that more Electrical Trainee's enrol and spend their Five grand!

 

[Adam_glover18]

I have read threw all the thread and there seems to me most people think the eal version is a waste of time and everyone who passes it are useless too.I find that rather irritating because I have done that course not my choice but my employer chose it.
I believe if you can pass the eal exam you can pass the c+g version as long as you put the time and effort in.
I work along side lads who have the 2391 exam and there no different from myself.
To be fair I had my reservations about the course but the jib and my company recognize the qualification so I suppose it's not that bad off a qualification.
If you read threw all of my reply and still awake you did well lol

 

[Leesparkykent]

I have read threw all the thread and there seems to me most people think the eal version is a waste of time and everyone who passes it are useless too.I find that rather irritating because I have done that course not my choice but my employer chose it.
I believe if you can pass the eal exam you can pass the c+g version as long as you put the time and effort in.
I work along side lads who have the 2391 exam and there no different from myself.
To be fair I had my reservations about the course but the jib and my company recognize the qualification so I suppose it's not that bad off a qualification.
If you read threw all of my reply and still awake you did well lol

Thats fair enough IMO you would be mad to turn down a qualification that you're employer is willing to pay for. I don't think an exam where you get to take guidance note 3 in with you can be compared as equal to the 2391.

 

[Adam_glover18]

I totally agree with you its not a equal to the closed book exam but i think it doesn't make me less of a spark than someone with the 2391 I can only do what exam is out infront of me lol . I would of personally chose c+g because it's the more known exam but you still need to know what to do to pass the exam

 

[charlie76]

Alright - Old thread but some interesting views and also some narrow minded views. I am currently considering the C+G2394/95 and also the EAL equivalent. The training centre i'm looking at offer either one for a snip over £1000. I rang and asked them why the EAL is open book and surely it is easier.

The answer is OFQUAL the regulator has said to C+G and all training providers that the exams should be open book, C+G have decided to ignore the regulator and remain closed book. The reason they are pushing for open book is not a money making scam as OFQUAL do not make their money by churning out "Low grade sparks", the reason they say is that in a real situation on site you have an issue, you can turn to reference the regs, GN's etc so having a closed book exam is not realistic. A valid point i'm sure!

My personal view is that the fundamental electrical theory should be engrained in your head and you should be able to answer a theory based question closed book. With regards regulations, testing practices and procedures etc, I think you would be foolish to think memorising it all is a positive. With changes in practice and procedure issued in new editions and amendments, you need to be making continual reference to the current editions of these publications, not pulling up something from memory you learnt in the 4th edition of BS7671 issued in 1903.

The industry is dynamic and so are practices, procedures, materials, technologies used. You need to be continually educating yourself, not memorising the current standards and practices because you feel it is more prestigious to sit an exam which forces you to recall from memory the current regulations.

In summary, and in my view, if the standard and level of questioning is the same on the C+G and the EAL, I would say there would be a better chance of achieving a higher pass on the EAL. However I think the EAL concept is more realistic to working life in that you should have reference to books to help resolve a technical issue.

 

[shanky887614]

Alright - Old thread but some interesting views and also some narrow minded views. I am currently considering the C+G2394/95 and also the EAL equivalent. The training centre i'm looking at offer either one for a snip over £1000. I rang and asked them why the EAL is open book and surely it is easier.

The answer is OFQUAL the regulator has said to C+G and all training providers that the exams should be open book, C+G have decided to ignore the regulator and remain closed book. The reason they are pushing for open book is not a money making scam as OFQUAL do not make their money by churning out "Low grade sparks", the reason they say is that in a real situation on site you have an issue, you can turn to reference the regs, GN's etc so having a closed book exam is not realistic. A valid point i'm sure!

My personal view is that the fundamental electrical theory should be engrained in your head and you should be able to answer a theory based question closed book. With regards regulations, testing practices and procedures etc, I think you would be foolish to think memorising it all is a positive. With changes in practice and procedure issued in new editions and amendments, you need to be making continual reference to the current editions of these publications, not pulling up something from memory you learnt in the 4th edition of BS7671 issued in 1903.

The industry is dynamic and so are practices, procedures, materials, technologies used. You need to be continually educating yourself, not memorising the current standards and practices because you feel it is more prestigious to sit an exam which forces you to recall from memory the current regulations.

In summary, and in my view, if the standard and level of questioning is the same on the C+G and the EAL, I would say there would be a better chance of achieving a higher pass on the EAL. However I think the EAL concept is more realistic to working life in that you should have reference to books to help resolve a technical issue.

good points but it doesnt stop the stubbon old goats that want to see certificates awarded by city and guilds, im torn if im honest i dont think you will have a lot of time to reference things in the 2394/2395 because of the exam length but i would happily be proven wrong (im planning on doing it this year)

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Some interesting (and very concerning) opinions on this thread.

Originally I posted in this thread a couple of years ago, but I've just re-read the entire thread as I'm (hopefully) a couple of months away from completing my 3 year apprenticeship. As I have self-funded my studies it is still worrying that EAL is not considered to be "worth the paper it is written on" by (some) individuals / employers, despite JIB & NICEIC recommending EAL as their preferred training provider.

I take on board people's opions of the open / closed book debate as I see both sides of the coin most days on site ... in the real world you would confirm via BS7671 / OSG / GN3 if you need to. However, I still know many electricians that don't have 17th edition books, let alone the updated qualifications. Therefore, just because "it's always been like that & that's how I learnt it 36 years ago" is a BS argument in my opinion!!

My concerns is that I may contact individuals / companies who share similar views to some individuals on this forum and I do not know whether to gain a C&G I&T qualification or EAL. I say this as pretty much all colleges in the South of England have left C&G and only use EAL for providing qualifications. Thus, potentially costing me work in the future because I may not "support the same team as you"!

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Having just done some research on C&G I&T qualifications, I came across this little beauty ...
"This is a full time 16 week course initially. 7 weeks for level 2, 7 weeks for level 3, 3 days for C&G 2382, 2 days for C&G 2377, 5 days for a combined C&G 2394/2395 and 1 day allocated for the practical Inspection & testing. The NVQ and AM2 will follow on from here but the dates for assessment are more likely to be determined by you. The cost is £8195.00 including VAT" - this is offered by https://www.ableskills.co.uk/electrical-courses/jib-gold-card-electrical-training-course/

So it seems to me that C&G are also offering a backdoor into the industry which will allow (potentially) inexperienced electricians to show a C&G qualification to the industry - which seems to be prefer by some.

My point is that if all providers are offering shorter quicker qualifications that is the industries fault, not the trainee / apprentice. We can only work with the tools given to us by colleges etc and the knowledge / experience of individuals willing to give people time to learn / work alongside them.

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Also just done some C&G closed book passed exams (without having books to hand) and they are in no way different to EAL.

I guess therefore that I will be paying to gain the C&G 2394 & 2395, rather than EAL I&T qualifications, just to keep the "old school" happy & not hinder my chance of gaining work in the future (as having done some employment / job searches the majority of individuals as for 2394 & 2395 qualifications, specifically, rather than started "or equivalent").

 

[shanky887614]

Also just done some C&G closed book passed exams (without having books to hand) and they are in no way different to EAL.

I guess therefore that I will be paying to gain the C&G 2394 & 2395, rather than EAL I&T qualifications, just to keep the "old school" happy & not hinder my chance of gaining work in the future (as having done some employment / job searches the majority of individuals as for 2394 & 2395 qualifications, specifically, rather than started "or equivalent").

look at it this was, the only guys in the office in a lot of electrical firms are old buggers or crap with there hands ^^

the exception is if they own the firm

 

[Skimpy Wan]

It just makes it more of a minefield when trying to get qualified & then look for work if companies dispute what the industry states / permits. It goes back to people only knowing that they knew as the point they qualified and not accepting changing within the industry - this goes for regs / equipment / qualifications, the lot!

 

[UNG]

It just makes it more of a minefield when trying to get qualified & then look for work if companies dispute what the industry states / permits.

I think what you have to realise the industry is now driven by training companies and schemes out to make a quick buck where quantity overrules quality add to that the fragmentation of skill sets within the industry that is blindly being driven through has changed the view of what an electrician is

It goes back to people only knowing that they knew as the point they qualified and not accepting changing within the industry - this goes for regs / equipment / qualifications, the lot!

It is all very well deriding the old school experienced sparks and there opinions but there is accepting change from the technological aspect and embracing new skills or there is accepting a change which is a lowering of the bar of what qualifications and experience make an all round fully competent electrician who can work on any type of electrical installation
The industry for a number of years has IMO been driven by the "those can't teach it" creating their own courses and giving all comers the minimum required as can be seen from the decreasing skill levels.
I really think you need a lot more experience before firing bullets at the old school

 

[Skimpy Wan]

I really think you need a lot more experience before firing bullets at the old school

I'm not firing bullets at the.old school ... without your (their) knowledge & experience we would never learn. However, if people aren't prepared to give experience or knowledge (through assistance / job opportunities) to the new breed because they have a qualification that is deemed by individuals to be inferior (whilst the JIB now accept EAL over C&G) then the industry will lose that skill & experience due to individual's opinions.

If I could buy 30 years of industry experience I would, however as I can't I'm paying for the training that is available from the industry / government / colleges and trying to gain experience "on-site" and from talking to people who have already gained the knowledge (hence why I am on an electrical forum).

 

[shanky887614]

I think what you have to realise the industry is now driven by training companies and schemes out to make a quick buck where quantity overrules quality add to that the fragmentation of skill sets within the industry that is blindly being driven through has changed the view of what an electrician is



It is all very well deriding the old school experienced sparks and there opinions but there is accepting change from the technological aspect and embracing new skills or there is accepting a change which is a lowering of the bar of what qualifications and experience make an all round fully competent electrician who can work on any type of electrical installation
The industry for a number of years has IMO been driven by the "those can't teach it" creating their own courses and giving all comers the minimum required as can be seen from the decreasing skill levels.
I really think you need a lot more experience before firing bullets at the old school

im qualified now but i spent most of my apprentaship doing bms and on the job im working on at the moment a lot of the guys on it are 15-20 years older but know naff all about bms its a nightmare trying to connect up after they have pulled cables in writing on the cables are a mile long and they quite often miss the important bits so you need to reference a set of drawings so you can check where they need to go XD

the problem with all these training schemes is a lot of places dont touch controls or rather there are not really a lot of qualiciations about that the installers actually get its more inhouse training as such

(in other words im now reguarded as competent enough to blow **** up without killing myself XD_

 

[darren slater]

Hello all. i know this was more than a year ago. i am walking the same path as many. getting bits of paper to allow me to wire a plug up for granny miggins down the street.

i think i get the worry of the dissolution of standards with an open book examination. i would dismiss that multi-choice = multi-guess. i have taken many of such way way back in the 80's to gain my military technical qualifications.

thing is. whilst running through the debate of c&g or eal. i note that c&g have reborn the 2391 and its open book too.....

i am pretty sure thats going to be met with a pile of dismay from some quarters.

my question would now hinge around.

eal or c&g????? any difference???

 

[Ian1981]

No difference in terms of you will gain a qualification in testing and inspection and thus be eligible for an approved electricians grade from the jib which may mean more money in your pocket.
People can debate who is better but the fact remains that one isn't better than the other in terms of qualification status/grade it brings

 

[Zdb]

I would definitely go with the C&G 2391 as it's the most recognised and by the sounds of it, its as easy if not easier than the EAL course now that it's open book.

Can't believe that they're calling an open book test & inspect course the 2391 but you'd be daft not to sign up to it.